Answered your own question there.

I don't think Hudds are over-performing at all. They have a very good squad and a very good coach, so good performances are to be expected. I just don't agree that our squad is far enough behind theirs to account for the difference in performances on it's own.

Nope. The difference in the two squads, even taking into account the advantage in the pivots, does not fully explain the differences in performances IMO. Particularly the difference in consistency of performance.

Going on your theory Agar must be a better coach than Morgan as he's had better results with poorer pivots.

I think we kind of agree, a better coach would make you better but he would need to recruit well to really make you challenge. Listening to RH last night a lot seemed to think a new coach alone would put you into contention, which I think is fairly wide of the mark.

I think a new coach would put us in contention for the top 6 rather than struggling to make the 8. Maybe the top 4 at a push. We'll not be challenging for silverware until we recruit a scrum half and beef up next season's likely pack.

The flip side is that without a change of coach I don't think it will matter how well we recruit - we won't be challenging.

A new coach would have us competing for the top four but, not the top of the table. I think could he could easily get another 20% out of the side and make us more consistent. We are not good enough to be challenging for the top positions just yet, some fans get carried away with out playing rosta.

Sorry guys, didn't see it, apologies.

Bring in Brian Noble for Agar it really is that simple.

We suffer massively because we haven't brought through enough quality players in the last 10 years. To be a top side then IMO you need a core of 6 or 7 players who are good quality (with 1 or 2 stars) who have come through the ranks and by definition will cost you a bit less than if you had to attract them from elsewhere. That then gives you more to spend on better quality players to complement the home grown ones.

saints, leeds and wigan have done it successfully in recent years and now hudds and wire are following suit.

The lack of progress from academy to 1st team is probably the biggest failing at the club since mcrae left

Spot on. Although I suppose that we would have had Niklas this season if not for an unfortunate injury. Still not enough for a club that supposedly has a great youth system mind.

If you gave Agar Huddersfield's squad and Brown Hull FC's, there is no doubt that the Giants would still finish higher, albeit by a slightly reduced margin.

You can only work with what you have got.

The Huddersfield squad is very settled and arguably the best balanced in the whole league, with size in the right areas (front row), depth in the right areas (back row), in-their-prime playmakers in the right areas (pivots) and speed to burn in the backs, all supplemented by superb conditioning and professionalism.

Like it or not, Hull FC's squad is an unbalanced, unsettled mix of injury-prone pivots, past-their-prime thirtysomethings, inconsistent outside backs, short-minute forwards and no real depth, all underpinned by a climate of 'short-termism' and questionable professionalism (though that apsect is slowly improving).

Hull FC maybe have four of five outstanding Super League players, Huddersfield would have at least twice that!

Of course, I am not absolving Agar of blame here at all because he is responsible for recruitment (or so we are told), and that is where he has failed badly. In that respect, Brown leaves him standing as a coach!

But, too many fans on this board suffer from 'delusions of granduer' regarding the ability of the actual squad - it's ordinary.

And judging by the recruitment of McKinnon, Ellis and Heremaia, it will remain so next year!

Give agar brown's squad and they'd be bottom 4 within 3 years. Most of their best players would have left to be replaced by ageing aussies and crocks from other SL clubs.

Having said that, ken davy is an RL man and isn't stupid enough to give his head coach role to someone who is ill equipped to do it