To be a great team you need decent foundations an we haven't had that in years. We now have a very good defence and youngsters coming through as well as other teams youngsters wanting to join us.

I have said all season it will take time for us to reach top teams level but we are competing with them. We haven't exactly being blasted of the park much this year and we did a fair few times last season.

Whether or not Gentle will be the guy that lifts the silverware for us is another question altogether but there is progress being made at the club IMO. Sacking the coach at this stage would just take us back another two years when in reality with a strong pre season and a few more decent signings we will be pushing to break the four.

Its being well known among other clubs that when they play at the KC if they can get in front they no the fans will turn on the team. Its to me no coincidence that once the negativity starts in the stands the home form drops.

Then it is you who is clueless. We were in with a shout of finishing 5th right up until the last game, where we turned in (yet another) dismal performance against Saints. Add in some of the other games we really ought to have won but didn't turn up (Wakey, Cas, Bradford, London), and we should have been pushing 4th.

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist unlike most of the dreamers on here. I don't swing from us being world beaters one week to a doom and gloom merchant the next. I tell it how I see it and my knowledge of the game is better than most I see posting on here.

As for progress this season, there has been some, notably us winning some games against the top teams, winning a "must win game" against wire in particular, the emergence of some excellent young talent, have shown improvements in defence at times and improvements in our injury recovery time. We've also stagnated in some areas I would have expected improvement in and the on field performances haven't been consistent enough. We still lose games we should win (not by right, just that we have better playing personnel and more resources), lack structure and seem disorganised in attack and generally the team regularly fails to play as well as it should with the personnel we have.

Now you may not agree with any of that and that but I can absolutely guarantee it doesn't make me a pessimist so if you think it does go find a dictionary

This sums up the season for me.

Don't think we have improved or gone backwards. We have pretty much stayed the same. We got less points than last season yes but we also reached a cup final. Our young players have blossomed and gained more experience which is great and we now have three halfbacks which can only be good.

We are established as a top six side now and the next step is to become top four. We have flirted with that for two years but not been good enough to take the opportunity.

Defensively we are sound in the main but our attack is woeful. You need firm foundations and we have that with our defence but unless our attack improves we won't become successful.

We have some genuine quality in our back and good halves. What we need is more grunt in the pack, Paea is a very good signing but we need more. Our recruitment is what may let us own for next season but lets see who we sign.

Half of me thinks PG deserves another year, half of me thinks not.

I would like Gentle to have next year as his make or break. I think I am right that he was given a three year contract and 23014 with be the 3rd year. If we change coach in this off season there will be too many excuses available to the next coach not having "his team".

IMO, if we had stayed relatively injury free (like Hudds have this season) then 4th would have been realistic.

I think we will see Miller and Holdsworth blossom next season. Miller has shown enough to suggest he is the half who is prepared to take on the line and get through it from time to time whilst Holdsworth can take us around the park with his kicking and reading of the game.

Regarding recruitment, I think we are lightweight in the pack without. St Helens showed us a couple of weeks ago the effectiveness of big and quick props. Paea will replace one of our departing props but IMO we need another monster up front. We also need a top quality centre.

You can't really say that though can you as Saints have lost games they perhaps should not of lost (Rovers twice, London, Widnes), as have Catalan (Salford, Rovers, Wakefield, Cas draw, Widnes draw) and Rovers (London twice, Widnes, Cas, Salford, Wakey)

So you could say we are lucky to have finished 6th

I think the problem is the sport in general has gone backwards to such a point that people now seem to just accept mediocrity. We haven't had a great season, the wembley run was good and an added bonus but we have been terrible in some games. We still do not do the basic right, and were certainly no better at them then we were under Agar. Our play of the ball is one of the slowest in the league, our passing game is horrendous, and our support play no existent at times.

The signings we've made under Gentle on the whole have been average squad players, Ellis apart and the recruitment so far for next season is again going down this path. Paea for me is replacing Moa who we didn't replace last season. I appreciate it isn't finished yet and I'm hoping that the club pull out a couple of great signings but I just can't see it when you see what is happening with recruitment at the other super league clubs.

The biggest positive of the season is the young kids, Crooks, Lineham and Shaul, these kids have taken their chances due to other players picking up injuries. I hope that these are the first batch of many and to give the club some credit there does seem some real focus on youth.

That is right, but he also then signed a 1 year extension, so has 2 contracted years left.

Personally, I think Gentle is doing a [igood[/i job, but I want [igreat[/i, so hopefully next year will be another improvement on the way to that.

I share your hope on this.

Both Gentle and Pearson commented in the past about under investment in youth. Over the last two seasons we have seen the emergence of Green, Lineham, Shaul, Crookes, Green and to a lesser extent, Bowden and Kent. Hopefully there will be another couple to come through next year.

A disappointing aspect for me is the clubs attitude. In this I mean the "believe" type tag line they wanted us to buy into. The fans did buy into it but I feel the club hasn't delivered. There was too much hype about potential when more realism should have been presented. I also find it difficult to understand why season pass prices have increased for 2014. Afterall, its not as though the wage bill will increase significantly. If the club want the fans to show loyalty, there has to be something coming back the other way.

I totally agree. He hasn't made an absolute ar$3 of it and the objective this season was to reach a final, which they have done. As I said before I am happy with small steps and steady improvement.

Lets face it the cup is a lottery and we could draw Wigan away first up next season and that is likely to be that for another year. The league however is different, next year I do not want or expect another 6th finish, must be closer to the top 4. Having said that, does it really make a difference?? Leeds have shown perhaps it doesn't!......

It's all about what ifs. You say we could have won these games but looking at other teams including saints and Leeds, they have been beat by poor teams this season as well and could have turned up. It's all swings and roundabouts. The reason I say we deserve to be 6th is based on comparisons with other teams. Do you really think or team is better than the ones above? And how does my reasonings make me clueless? I just think the majority of fans out there are deluded to the fact we are not yet strong enough the compete at the top end of the ladder.

Typical pessimistic response. "I'm a realist". How can you decide what's "really" happening?


Well you would think everyone else's knowledge is worse because you think the worst of everything.
And you don't swing because you always take the pessimistic view regardless of how good we're doing.


There you go. That wasn't hard. And to think, if you hadn't been pressed we wouldn't have even had this Jakey Knowledge Bomb!


I agree. But it's not as bad as people make out.


As does every team in every sport except a very rare perfect few. That's the beauty of sport, it's not down to what's on a piece of paper or built in the back. Underdogs do win.

We also won some games we shouldn't have by comparison.


We've had major disruptions in the halves. That will happen.


"Pessimism is a state of mind in which one anticipates undesirable outcomes or believes that the evil or hardships in life outweigh the good or luxuries."
Yeah, I'd say that sums you up. There are always more hardships. There's always something more wrong than right.

You don't know me so I don't see how you can comment on my state of mind. You fall into the same trap as the other sheep who don't really read what I post and label me as negative. If you did bother then you'd realise I post what I see and think and back it up with why. If some of that is stuff you'd rather not read about the club then don't bother. I have posted a huge amount of positive things about the club over the years and continue to do so - if you bothered to read what I post then you'd also know that those things I put in the post you commented on are things I've posted on other threads in recent weeks but I'd guess it would be too much to ask for you to look a bi further rather than jumping on the bandwagon.

And I'd back my knowledge of insight into the game against most on here and I guess your "jakey knowledge bomb" quip proves the case with you.

Anyway, I'm glad you take so much notice of what I post. To be honest I can't really say I've ever noticed you other than the mechanic comment from standee the other day which I thought was a bit daft at the time but I now realise where he was coming from.

Anyway, I'll continue to post what I want and if you don't like it try putting me on your ignore list

Technically, is this our best season since 2007? League position, play-off win, cup final?