I think the problem is that he has been so consistently good that people are loth to criticise him when his standards do drop.

I think it's tit for tat really in terms of criticism. Whiting was totally in no man's land for the try you allude to and I've no idea what he was doing. In Tickle's first game back against Wakefield he made a shambles of an effort in defence on his own line to allow a try in that in score terms cost us the match. Against Hudds Westerman was poor on his own line to miss a straightforward one on one to allow a score which in score terms cost us a point. The Tickle and Westerman incidents were barely mentioned on here so I think overall criticism is fairly evenly shared out. I do think that sometimes the grafters (Westerman being one) sometimes don't get the credit they deserve but that's always been the case.

I don't think it's evenly shared out, personally. Individual incidents are possibly pulled out as often, but they are used/held against different players in very different ways IMO, and a lot of my point was about how it is done. It's also always then the same names who are called of to get rid, regardless of form of both them and others.

I know it continually harks back to the same names, but it's just that they're such good examples rather than an agenda, but look at a few weeks ago when I pointed out Whiting costing us a try against Cas with a penalty followed by a missed tackle. The instant reply I got was that he shouldn't have been in that position because Westerman shouldn't have attempted an offload and lost possession. If it had been the other way around we'd have had yet another thread on here saying we should get rid of Westerman. If you'd like a couple of different examples, I think it's also true of McDonnell and Crooks but to lesser extent. McDonnell has been one of our best players, but those few errors are still picked upon with relish by many, whereas probably because of how good Crooks has been in attack, his defensive lapses have been overlooked/forgotten about.

We have a handful of players who when they make a mistake, mitigating factors are found and acknowledged (and rightly so, most of the time), but likewise we have a bunch for whom fans just seem to be poised waiting to pounce on every error and castigate them for it, without offering the same defence.

It did worry me a little, but not massively. Obviously the fact that Catalan suffered a lot too showed how tough the conditions were, but I was still a bit concerned with how many times we but the ball down cold or simply fluffed the pass. The ball popping out in the collision or squirming out on the floor is one thing, but I still thought our basic catching and passing should have been a bit better.

Not sure about Crooks not getting criticised I think some have pointed out that he has weaknesses in his game that need fixing whilst at the same time acknowledging that he's young enough to do that. McDonnell has been unfairly criticised by some mainly because of who he used to play for IMO which is pathetic. He was absolutely gutted after his error against Wakefield which in all honesty was due to other players' failings more than his own.

In the Cas game you mention, Whiting should have made a better fist of the defence he served up and it cost us a try conceded. I criticised Westerman because I believe he cost us a try scored with a silly offload just prior to the Whiting incident. I don't think Cas would have recovered from us scoring at that point and we'd have won. Both are perfectly valid criticisms of two different incidents involving two different players.

The example I used of Westerman in the Hudds game disproves the theory that I think you follow that he is one of the players to cop unfair criticism. Barely anyone mentioned his defensive error on the line in that game but I bet he was personally disappointed with his effort - certainly looked that way from his reaction. He has also, rightly, received praise for his Catalan performance, particularly defensively, which with along others was outstanding.

Overall I do think players earn reputations with fans based on their efforts for the team. That said some fans have ridiculous agendas (such as previous club played for) which they'll never relinquish and some struggle to understand the game. In general though I think Hull fans almost will players to do well but as I've said elsewhere these days there's so many platforms for fans to air their opinions there will always be debate.

I'd really like to believe that we've maybe reached a turning point, but at this stage I don't think I've seen enough to suggest that the Hudds error being relatively overlooked isn't an exception rather than the rule. And that still only limits it to this board, a couple of people in the south stand near me were quick to point it out. Lastly, I've not suggested it's a blanket rule for all fans, there will always be plenty who give credit where it is due. I was simply commenting that not all fans do that and that it bothers me.



Fully agree with all of that, but as I just said, my point was taking issue with that minority, not suggesting it was the majority. There definitely is a section that seem to revel in the failures of certain individuals.

Anyone know who the guy is that got completely battered before the game and had to be carried out in the first half?

I assume he's now OK?

He was on the other bus to us and apparently was carted off to hospital as he was in such a state. He didn't make it back to the ground for his transfer back to Spain.

Apologies if you already knew that.

No I didn't. Cheers.

He was in a hell of a state though.

Mad dogs and Englishmen..................

He was hammered before he got to the stadium - saw him in the square in Perpignan and he was well past it then. It's a good job there were a few to carry him down from his seat as they were comedy steps - all different heights.

The lady off our coach who was staying in Lloret was a star - very fluent in Spanish and I guess French as she went off to make sure he was ok.

I saw the lad being taken care of (carted away) pity his ''friends'' didn't take as much care of him !!

We definitely don't do our selves any favors, we stayed in Perpignan and based on the antics of a few on the Saturday we were not welcomed as openly on the Saturday night as we were on the Friday and Sunday !!

Where did you go?

We had a fantastic welcome in Perpignan, as always, much better than many UK cities.

I've heard from Dave Foti this afternoon - he's not heard from the guy at all