Totally right, I'm not sure either Robertson or Faromind are better than Moy or Charles, but they are playing on much better sides than Hull.

Exactly…Farrimond does look good I admit as for Robertson,he is getting massively bigged up as he is at Sts but he is struggling and has at least 1 or more mistakes in him every game.

We badly need strengthening in the forwards, 2nd row and centres. Wigan com0letely physically dominated us right across the park today. With only Sao and Holmes missing from what will be our pack next year its worrying. Far too lightweight overall and completely 7nable to hold their own against a decent set of forwards

And John Asiata. Hopefully another too.

And Staveley who looked ready to step up regularly.

So as it stands:
Asiasta
Cartwright
Holmes
Aydin
Ese'ese

Bench assuming 3 forwards:
Ashworth
Sao
Staveley/Chamberlain/Fash/Lane

Not top of the league but not that bad.

personally , if possible i'd look to offload Sao & Fash.

Do we?

Lets say our pack and bench next season is Ese Ese, Cust, Aydin, Cartwright, Holmes and Asiata, bench, Ashworth, Balmforth, Staveley and Sao, that 4 players who where in the 17, one of which went off before HT with HIA, so that means we had 35% of our starting pack playing yesterday.

I thought we matched Wigan's pack pretty well, they were better but not by too much, none of their forwards made over 100m.

Made difference was the likes of Field and Leeming, they created 3/4 trys, we just didn't have the quality in any pivot position.

Wigan are a step above us and will be for the next few years, we need to slowly close down the gap though.

Would I like some more addictions in the pack yes and think we will get a couple more to add depth, but our starting pack isn't bad IMO, centre and halfback are the key recruitment to be done.

Sao possible, if we can get better, he is a good player, but just does silly things, maybe Cartwright and a better, fitter side will help.

Fash I'd keep for another year, easy to say get rid, but the you have to replace him domestically, which as we all know isn't easy.

Like Lane, Fash, hopefully won't be an automatic pick next season.

As soon as we lose a couple we're into kids or outside backs playing in the forwards

Agree, think we will add a couple more for depth. Not sure where from though, maybe someone like Eseh or Livett, worth keep an eye of the championship too.

Apart from Wigan who seem to have about 50 experienced forwards, is pretty what most other clubs do, Saints have 3/4 out they bring in young player like Stephens, same with Warrington, to be fair to Wigan, so do they, it's just they forwards are all massive and look like they have been playing for years.

I don't think we need to get rid of Fash, we just need to create a scenario where he isn't in the first choice 17. Up until this season he has always been solid and reliable without been good enough to be a top prop. Head seems to have gone recently and he's more bothered about been some type of enforcer rather than working hard. He's a better back up than what we currently have and that's the position we need to get to.

I've said it before but the biggest recruitment we need is a leader on the pitch. IMO we haven't got that yet and desperately need it. Too easy for players to hide currently when things are going against us. Asiata will add some leadership but has never looked like someone who will really grab a team by the scruff of the neck when needed

I too worry about the pack, so think if cartwright & Chamberlain finish the game, plus the two banned aren't plus the 2 Wigan loanees are available we are a lot closer. Hooker still a big worry - we started this year with Nu Brown, Houghton, Smith & Balmforth. Currently looking like Burough & Bamforth next year ?

I think Cust ( if fit ) will be starting in the halves.

Our youth have never physically developed like the Wigan boys - must be something in the water over there ?i

Wakefield announcing a signing at 7pm this evening. A coincidence that HDM have unofficially confirmed that Trueman is leaving?