They threw kids into their front row and it didnt harm them...i would have said our pack and subs was better than theirs but they played the conditions better.Id like a bit more size in the pack sure as dont think the small pack works.

cant argue there mate

Not surprised with yesterday's performance TBH.

Our same problems exist, year in, year out.

Against any well drilled defence, we dont look like scoring. - we dont ask any positive questions of the oppositions defence.

Messrs Sandercock & Noble, have improved their attack style,with less resources with existing players,than Gentle has at his disposal.

I dont feel ,as its a personnel problem neither,it appears our basic core skills in attack are neglected -Defensively,we are superb.

Until our attack is improved - things will not change.

I have just watched the game on sky plus. It's clear that eyes were taken off the ball for most of the knock ons.

I still think the conditions should have dictated a more cautious approach in regard to penalty choices. 3 shots in kick able positions would have left us 6-8 down with 20 to go.

Well summed up. I'm not sure what the answer is but I don't think it's gentle. The club owner has given him everything and we've ended up with an average squad which consistently underperforms and doesn't seem capable of doing some very basic things well

I thought yesterday distilled the 2013 season into 80 minutes. No respect for the ball, no idea in the opposition 20 but excellent defending.

I didn't expect too much from Miller this season so I'm hoping more from him next year after gaining a bit of experience this year, this should hopefully help with our last plays in the opposition 20.

You rarely get into the opposition 20m on two plays, which seemed to be about our average yesterday

Regarding how long for Gentle to make the 4.

Interesting stat. Coaches in their first season did it.

Catalan 2007 - 10th, 2008 3rd = Potter

hudds 2008 10th ,- 09 3rd = Brown

Wigan 2009 - 6th - 2010 1st -Maguire
hudds 2012 7th - 2013 1st - Anderson.

The problem again, is these so called quality players being ‘available’

It ok shouting ‘recruitment’ ‘recruitment’ when our real problem for decades has been ‘development’

Sadly can't see us 'competing' until our development kicks in.

Dream recruitment this year would bring in James Graham. Kyle Amor, Richard Walker, NRL 2nd rower & at least one top drawer 3/4. We need to strengthen the squad not weaken it.

In reality that can't happen due to Salary cap etc.

Sadly wouldn't see even that team dominating the competition.

Only way we will compete is by the likes of Crooks, Lineham, Green, Shaul & co. really kicking on & being supported by more youngsters & really top class experience.

In AP we trust but really doubting PG now.

Agree with this.

Also think we are making progress with development but it's going to take another season at least. Plus I think our mental as well as skill development is paramount. Yesterday we looked like we were startled in the headlights by the occasion. All season long we have still chucked the so-called 'easy on paper' games away. Both these examples demonstrate weaknesses in our mental attitude. But our development as a team [iis[/i building compared to the Agar years, our overstretched patience must endure more time.

The over-reaction on this forum is incredibly narrow minded.

With PG we've had a young lad play at wembley, in what his 9th 1st team game ( instead of Horne which many other coaches would have done), without PG our young upcoming forwards wouldn't get a look in nor would the backs.
We've got a 20 year No.7 who whilst is an exciting prospect, is just that, a prospect, he's no Sterling (ATM) and will come on and be better and gain more experience/composure.


As for the final ,we've got several players who were still not 100% and maybe in hindsight rushed back due to the severity of our situation, a decision coaches have to decide upon time and time again. However fitness wise I thought we matched and exceeded Wigan.
On top of that you have a few players who had stinkers and with it being a cup final, awful weather and the pressure of the occasion you have what can only be described as an awful overall performance but not our worst this season by any stretch.
I was proud of the way we defended but we looked scared, nervous and clearly tried to hard and put pressure on ourselves to force the issue far too often which imploded on us big style.

Getting rid of Gentle doesn't remove the fact the players themselves failed, and I'm sure they will be the first ones to hold their hands up and admit they performed woefully. Getting rid of Gentle doesn't mean we would do any better next season, him staying bring us is some semblence of continuity, it keeps up the good work he has brought into the club and we will improve, I think we are better than last season and our defence has been immense.

I'm as bitterly dissapointed as everyone else but from where we were under Agar/Hetherington's and the absolute dross on the field plus sub standard infrastructure we are in a far better position to keep improving. We know we can compete and beat the top teams, we've being a bit unlucky at times and sometimes just that we weren't good enough on the day.
I think the players will be going all out to win against Wigan next weekend, not that it will make a huge amount of difference for some but to me I think we have the basis of a team that can go forward and under PG I think we have a great chance.

Full agree there Knockerbumps

If the dropped ball had occurred on tackle 5 or 6 instead of 1 or 2 I doubt much would have been made of it. The coach cannot legislate for the ball being handed over so early on such a regular basis. We were never i a position to form any sort of attack we had to report to brain farts of kicks in the second half (Crookes, Houghton and Briscoe) which would never come to anything. That was panic playing rather than the coaches plays.