Did you miss the devil's advocate bit?

So how much has been invested into Bishop Burton by Pearson. I'm also aware of the Gordon Street set up but the u21's/u18's were also training/playing up at Brantingham which isn't to shoddy.

You can't "play devils advocate" and ask such loaded questions, if people don't want to believe/admit that AP has done masses for FC it's up to them, I can see just what he's changed at the club, and it's massive.

I don't deny there is fantastic work happening off the field, but after 2 years I expected a few green shoots of progress. This season has been a massive disapointment, we've been inconsistent in the league, our attacking play is still woeful, and being nilled at Wembley is just embarassing however you dress it up.

last time we went from being average to good (2004) you could feel the signs that brighter times were ahead. In 2004 we played some fantastic attacking rugby and finished 3rd, and even though the season fizzled out becuase of injury, you could feel that a trophy wasn't far away.

right now I don't have that feeling at all, I feel we are stuck in mid-table malase and are no nearer breaking out of it.

sure the work we are doing off the field with the youth development may lead to us unearthing more Ben Crooks' and more Tom Lineham's, but this isn't guaranteed and I don't think many fans will sit through more years of hype and no delivery. The club is already losing money on the gates we get, I worry about what will happen if another thousand or two passholders get disillusioned and stop going.

of course as a fan I hope i've got it completely wrong and that we are about to go on a run of finals, top4 finishes and trophy wins. But right now i'm just not feeling it.

Well, under the previous regime Green, Bowden, Shaul, Lineham and Crooks wouldn't have played a single game. We'd have loaned players from Leeds.

still in the playoffs and appeared in the Wembley CC final, am sure fans of a lot of other clubs would live with that "disappointment"

I think some people need a reality check

and I completely agree with that, but in the cold light of day we still aren't winning any more games than when we bused in loanees from Leeds are we?

even the much maligned Agar got us to a CC final, and we didn't play as woefullyin 2008 as we did on Saturday.

and getting to the playoffs is all good and well if you're actually going to do something when we get there, the fact is most important games we flop spectacularly, and the only hope we have is frustrating teams with our defence and keeping the score down because our attack is so inept.

Yet no one can actually come up with any specifics or figures to back up these claims, or can they?

I'm aware we've moved our set up from Brantingham/Gordon Street to YPI and Bishop Burton. However these venues already existed, so what specific investment has the club made in them is surely a fair question to those that claim significant money has been made in our infrastructure.

True, but these players are gaining experience and Hull FC will benefit from the experience these young guys are getting, another season or so and these players will undoubtedly get even better which will be great of us. Previously the only beneficiaries were Leeds.

To be fair that was Peter Sharp's team. Agar hadn't had much chance to destroy it at that time.

none so blind as those that refuse to see

Nobody is refusing to see. Just asking what appears to be reasonable questions that some (those that claim investment has been made) are finding difficult to answer! after all this is what a forum is for surely.