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| Quote: Mild mannered Janitor "
The main change in the board since Sharp departed is the promotion to CEO of James Rule, who is clearly not up to making big decisions.
'"
I thought Rule was CEO when Sharp was sacked?
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| Quote: Mild mannered Janitor "I don't see th appointment of any coach as a failing. Not acting accordingley when things are not going right is the error.
As a matter of interest, why were the appointments of Kear and Sharp mistakes? Kear won us our only trophy of note in the last 20 years whilst Sharp got us to the GF. Ultimately they fell on their sword for differnent reasons as at the time the board were not affraid to make big decisions when it was needed.
Failure to get Cooke to sign was down to Plummer, who effectively fell on his sword for that and is no longer part of our club. Plummer was CEO and had ultimate say, hardly the fault of the other directors at the time or the current ones who were not party to it all back then.
What exactly has playing an ineligable player in the CC really cost the club?
Failure to turn off field success to on field success. Isn't that down to the playing staff and coach to do that? And this is where we come full circle. The board used to make snap decisions which were probably the right ones (getting rid of Kear and Sharp - although I have a degree of sympathy for Sharp as the loss of Cooke (beyond his control ) and the worst season for injuries in many a year (beyond his control) were contributory factors). The failure of the board has been to blindly back Richard Agar when its firstly, inconsistant with treatment of other coaches and secondly, possibly more evidently, Agar simply is not good enough which has been evident from round 7 of SL in 2009. The awarding of a 2 year extention was neither justified or good business sense.
The main change in the board since Sharp departed is the promotion to CEO of James Rule, who is clearly not up to making big decisions.
Finally, you say "This club desperately needs some real rugby people in key positions". Who do you mean by this? ATEOTD We do not have a sugar daddy who is prepared to let business sense go out of the window and will under write any losses.
Unfortunately there are too many (and thias is not directed at you ) who seem to think getting Kath Hetherington out will be like someone waving a magic want and everything will be rosey. Kath is not the problem, its the CEO (who cannot make the big call) who is.
Where have I said kath should go? We have no one on the board who has any real knowledge of or contacts in the game. it's why we've consistently failed to live up to our potential. it's why we've appointed successively worse coaches since mcrae left (kear did well to win the cup but was, as was his successor, just not up to the job of managing a big club). it's why we have underperformed in bringing young talent through. It's why we sign big name aussies on big contracts who have, on the whole, failed to live up to expectations (of course there are some exceptions). It's why we feed off the cast offs of the more successful clubs. If we had a real rugby person on board recruitment, retention and player development would be much improved.
The examples I quoted were examples of mistakes made by the board you claimed had only made one.
I'm amazed you don't see the appointment of any coach as a failing. To me, the appointment of a coach who had never worked within a top class coaching environment into the head coach position at a club with supposed top 4 aspirations, was a massive mistake and so it's proven to be. It was too much of a risk after the previous 2 failed coaches (neither of whom fell on their swords BTW).
I'm not suggesting the board should go, merely that we need someone in there making decisions who actually has the knowledge of the game required for us to be a success. None of the current ones have that.
I agree with you on rule though but he's going nowhere and even if he did his replacement wouldn't be able to make the decisions that count anyway
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "Where have I said kath should go? We have no one on the board who has any real knowledge of or contacts in the game. '"
Bit unfair on KH, she comes from a real rugby league family and has been involved in the game all her life. I'd wager that she knows more about RL than most chairpersons in the game.
Hasn't stopped her and the board making some poor coaching decisions, I grant you.
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| Jake what do you mean by contacts and how do you know she hasn't got any?
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| Quote: ComeOnYouUll "Bit unfair on KH, she comes from a real rugby league family and has been involved in the game all her life. I'd wager that she knows more about RL than most chairpersons in the game.
Hasn't stopped her and the board making some poor coaching decisions, I grant you.
I hear this all the time but have never seen any evidence of it. the current state of the club tells me it isn't correct
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| sorry Jake, but I have to disagree with you about Kath, she has better and wider contacts in RL, both in the UK and internationally than most people, she is definitely guilty of having poor judgement when it comes to recruiting coaches.
Crooke not signing was Plummers fault, Thacks not being registered was 50/50 between FC and the RFL (it was an admin issue afterall, once a player has taken the pitch in a game, he's pseudo registered in most people's eyes anyway, the fact he was named in the squad logged with Red Hall and they had no issue at the time tells us this is so).
Do I "like" Kath, no, she's one of the most objectionable people I have ever met, BUT she is RL through and through.
And when you say "current state" of the club, what do you mean, 3 Exiles that showed true class, one of the most promising 13's in Westerman, promising 7 in Ellis?
Agar is the one, and only, issue at Hull FC.
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| Quote: Sheldon "Jake what do you mean by contacts and how do you know she hasn't got any?'"
I mean people throughout the game who can point the club in the right direction when we're looking for players or a new coach, advocates of the club who will put a word in the right ear.
If she does have any then she really needs to start talking to them after 12 or so years at the club. The last person who we had who seemed to have these contacts was mcrae.
Other than the financial position, which is in part down to good marketing and part to the fanatical fan base who have supported the club through a very poor patch, what is better at the club now than it was in 2005? The lack of progress in playing terms is appalling
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| Quote: Standee "sorry Jake, but I have to disagree with you about Kath, she has better and wider contacts in RL, both in the UK and internationally than most people, she is definitely guilty of having poor judgement when it comes to recruiting coaches.
Crooke not signing was Plummers fault, Thacks not being registered was 50/50 between FC and the RFL (it was an admin issue afterall, once a player has taken the pitch in a game, he's pseudo registered in most people's eyes anyway, the fact he was named in the squad logged with Red Hall and they had no issue at the time tells us this is so).
Do I "like" Kath, no, she's one of the most objectionable people I have ever met, BUT she is RL through and through.
And when you say "current state" of the club, what do you mean, 3 Exiles that showed true class, one of the most promising 13's in Westerman, promising 7 in Ellis?
Agar is the one, and only, issue at Hull FC.'"
I'll defer to your knowledge on her contacts but then I'd question her ability to leverage them. We have seen absolutely no evidence that she is using these alleged contacts and in reality, the last time we saw any evidence of anyone with real knowledge of the game was mcrae.
My list of "errors" was purely in response to MMJ's claim that the only mistake the board had made was extending agar's contract. I wasn't passing judgement on them.
By current state of the club I mean the fact we haven't had a decent half back partnership since 2007, the fact that we hardly have any home grown players in our 1st choice 17, that we consistently fail to perform to the level we should.
agar is a big part of the problem and the failings may be addressed by simply replacing him with the right man, but if that man isn't then allowed a free reign on playing matters then I feel it won't get us to where we want to be.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "
By current state of the club I mean the fact we haven't had a decent half back partnership since 2007, the fact that we hardly have any home grown players in our 1st choice 17, that we consistently fail to perform to the level we should.
agar is a big part of the problem and the failings may be addressed by simply replacing him with the right man, but if that man isn't then allowed a free reign on playing matters then I feel it won't get us to where we want to be.'"
we both know that this very board is an illustration of the problems that Hull FC face, Agar is, according to some "the best british young coach", well, he maybe is, but that is a bit like saying that Eddie The Eagle was the "best British Ski jumper", he was still crap. Radford has a testemonial for doing his job, for different employers, trousering the cash and running a successful sports shop along the way, Horne plays a handful of games at the required level and we should be keeping him for another year, as we will Dowes, those are not the actions of a successful, determined and ruthless organisation.
The problems at our club are:
AMBITION
DESIRE
ATTENTION TO DETAIL
FOCUS
DETERMINATION
PROFESSIONALISM
one look at Agar tells you he posesses none of the above, as cod'ead (and others) have said, Agar is a quality coach, but he is NOT a leader of men, not until his job is on the line, and then he has the capabilities of Captain Mainwearing.
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| Quote: Standee "
The problems at our club are
You need to come up with a good acronym for those
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DeAF DesPrAt
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "You need to come up with a good acronym for those'"
I can think of a dyslexic one: CRAP
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "I'll defer to your knowledge on her contacts but then I'd question her ability to leverage them. We have seen absolutely no evidence that she is using these alleged contacts and in reality, the last time we saw any evidence of anyone with real knowledge of the game was mcrae.
My list of "errors" was purely in response to MMJ's claim that the only mistake the board had made was extending agar's contract. I wasn't passing judgement on them.
By current state of the club I mean the fact we haven't had a decent half back partnership since 2007, the fact that we hardly have any home grown players in our 1st choice 17, that we consistently fail to perform to the level we should.
agar is a big part of the problem and the failings may be addressed by simply replacing him with the right man, but if that man isn't then allowed a free reign on playing matters then I feel it won't get us to where we want to be.'"
By your rationale, any club who has not won a trophy has failed from board level down.
I would still maintain that the appointment of any coach is not a failing but not responding to failing performance is.
There are a number of coaches who have done very well without having top four experiance (Maguire at Wigan, Potter at St's), and there are just not that many coaches about.
What begs the questions is, who applied unsuccessfully for the job prior ro Kear, Sharp or Agar's appointment.
Giving Agar an opportunity to be promoted was a gamble, but ultimately not a bad choice at the time (mid 200icon_cool.gif. There were no big names floating about who were not in work at that time who could have stepped in mid season. The gamble has not worked.
Giving a failed gamble an extention was and still is the major error.
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| Quote: Mild mannered Janitor "By your rationale, any club who has not won a trophy has failed from board level down.
I would still maintain that the appointment of any coach is not a failing but not responding to failing performance is.
There are a number of coaches who have done very well without having top four experiance (Maguire at Wigan, Potter at St's), and there are just not that many coaches about.
What begs the questions is, who applied unsuccessfully for the job prior ro Kear, Sharp or Agar's appointment.
Giving Agar an opportunity to be promoted was a gamble, but ultimately not a bad choice at the time (mid 200icon_cool.gif. There were no big names floating about who were not in work at that time who could have stepped in mid season. The gamble has not worked.
Giving a failed gamble an extention was and still is the major error.'"
The board of any club which consistently fails to achieve it's potential has failed. You're the only one who has mentioned trophies. Have the huddersfield board failed in taking hudds from 50 years in the wilderness to where they are now?
Appointing an untried coach into a head coach position which he clearly has no credentials for was/is a mistake. maguire had worked for about 6 years with one of the best coaches in the world at one of the best clubs in the world. it was a calculated risk by wigan but one more likely to succeed than appointing a guy who has been assistant to your 2 previous failed coaches.
We won't agree on this one. Giving a coach with no credentials the job was a mistake IMO, I said it at the time and it's been proven to be so. It's like sticking a 17 year old in the driving seat of your new bentley and then wondering why it gets wrapped around a tree somewhere
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