Breaking news on BBC sport website. 2 game ban and £300 fine for Long. No surprise there then.

I agree with your points, but I was just backing up BB's point that Fitz earns his big wage. Perhaps he tries to hard to do it all, perhaps he slows our distribution a bit at times, I don't disagree, but there have been many many Aussies in SL on wind-down to take the money and Fitz is the complete antithesis of that IMO.

I agree he's not on a wind-down, but I am starting to think he's giving us different problems. I have this nagging feeling that he's trying (succeeding?) to take control a bit more than a player should.

I also think that his role means that he is able to show his worth even in a struggling team, whereas some players are much more dependent on help from their teammates to deliver what they can. Berrigan was a prime example of that IMO, he can't do so much without quick ptbs and dummy runners, but Fitzgibbon can drive the ball in and tackle anyone who comes near him all day long irrespective of what people around him are doing.

I think that without him we'd have a whole load more problems than we've got.

Like what?

None of which alters the actual point I was making, that he's the opposite of "here for a holiday".

Like missing his work ethic. We don't have a large number of players waiting in the wings with the same commitment to work in defence, or for that matter the same technique. I also think he's been leading on the field well. Additionally I believe he is showing leadership off the field in the face of at times vitriolic criticism. I also believe he is a top role model for the younger players to look up to. Maybe he is guilty on occasion of entering the line when it might be preferable not to, but overall we would be a far worse team without him and he has been an excellent signing for Hull.

Seriously is this the best picture of Long the BBC had? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 446715.stm Looks like me in the Irish bar in Perpignan last year!!

Seriously is this the best picture of Long the BBC had? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 446715.stm Looks like me in the Irish bar in Perpignan last year!!

I didnt have long hair and a dodgy eye when i went in there!!

I think most of those are problems we DO currently have, particularly the work ethic one. You say yourself that we don't have too many players with the commitment and technique he does, so you acknowledge the problem is there, and that would mean it appears he's not made a difference by bringing it out in his teammates or passed on enough of his technique/experience to others.

I'm not saying he's not been a good signing, I just think that he's also not without his faults and some go overboard on him and just how much he's doing for our team. Bottom line is that he's a part of a poor team, and is not exempt from criticism IMO.