I'd imagine any player that wants to come mid season wants a minimum 2.5 year deal to make it worthwhile so they have to be the quality we need long term or we are just getting into a bigger mess.

We made several loan signings at the end of last season but apart from getting us a Magic Weekend win we are no better off from that wheeling and dealing.

Agree that the the younger players need to be promoted to the 1st team now. There's several first team players I'd happily never see pull the shirt on again.

Are there any young players at the big clubs that want first team football but aren't getting the opportunity at their clubs?

We did that in the early 2000s under McRae. We brought in three young lads from Leeds. Gareth Carvell, Gareth Raynor and Ewan Dowes. They all went on to good achievements. Mcrae also blooded young players like Paul Cooke, Paul King, Richard Horne and Kirk Yeaman. They also went on with those lads from Leeds to good achievements.

Get some hungry, enthusiastic youngsters and spend big money on a few experienced leaders to put alongside them.

That's a successful formula. It's a formula that we don't do. And that's why we're a team that has zero chance of challenging.

An acknowledgment at last that FC are not a big club.

Im not privvy to know our out goings but some rough estimates show they must be high for us to be losing money.

7500 members x 200 average pass cost = 1.5 mill
3000 non members x 20 average ticket ptice x 13 home games = 780k
If you say each member spends around on average 25 on merchandise = 187,500k
That totals 2,467,500 million, without TV money and any other sales from programmes, prize money or sponsorships.

Obviousley these are estimates and not facts but to be losing money or not being able to spend at full cap with those numbers is worrying.

We're not and some fans still need to get to grips with that.

I'd only describe Saints, Wigan and Leeds as big clubs based on history, trophies and stadiums. Warrington almost there but a lack of league titles let's them down. The rest of us, Rovers included just bobble about mid to low in the table and hopefully win a cup if they are lucky.

Ive always believed were no where near cap, when you look at other clubs squads, some seem to have almost 3 or 4 marquesque type players, we have zero.

Let me just reiterate, I'm no way saying Smith should be sacked but he isn't untouchable and blameless like many seem to think, I get tinkering with your squad with so many players out of contract, but surley no one thinks Shaul and Evans will be kept on, so why play them? Pete says I doubt the result would have been different if Litten and Brown had played, but surley that's better for the future.

Radford did alot of damage to the club later in his tenure, losing players like Litten and Abdul by not giving them a chance for example, I hope the same doesn't happen here.

I admit the reluctance to play Brown is baffling.

Big enough to play an important role in your life. You certainly come across like these are your most important opponents. You can't stay away from their fans.you want to be with them all the time.

Litten and Abdul got plenty of chances under Radford. They just didn't take their chances.

It could have been worse. That performance could have been at Wembley in a cup final and we could have conceded an extra ten points on top.

That's nonsense, particularly about Litten, played 28 games and in that time I'd bet he played a token 20 minutes in most games, even if Houghton was injured he would rather play Fash or Hadley at hooker.

Abdul had some good games, never really got a good run, since then we have had Reynolds, Gale and McNamara, Abdul had more good games than the three combined.

Obviously FC are important as you provide the derbies and the banter. Despite what many people say derby matches are different and provide interest in the City. Our derbies are important to the City and RL in general. I want FC in SL as the competition would be poorer without you and the interest our rivalry engenders. However I am entitled to wallow in your present distress. It was good to see the hurt on the FC fans’ faces as we walked back to the car. Not that there were many of them by the time we left the ground. Sport goes around and comes around and at the moment you are on a big down. The playing staff and finances appear in a parlous state long may your suffering continue.

I have no issue with most Rovers fans coming on here to mock us, we would do the same, it's what sport and being rivals is about.

Although if during this spell of dominance they don't win anything it will soon be forgotten, plenty of other times in SL Rovers have been a better side, but no one remembers it, as in the end they didn't achieve anything.