FORUMS > Hull FC > Anti merger meeting |
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| Quote: Monkey Lover "Quote: Monkey Lover "Mr Monkey lover said, "
Aah!! a new poster
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69863_1359553342.jpg [b:evlmmvj5][i:evlmmvj5][color=#FF0000:evlmmvj5]If it makes you happy it can't be that bad - Sheryl Crow 1996.[/color:evlmmvj5][/i:evlmmvj5][/b:evlmmvj5]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69863.jpg |
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| Quote: Monkey Lover "The fact is I get that, I get all of it.
I happen to think Lee Radford will come good, but I understand why fans would be annoyed right now and this is a cherry on a very badly made cake. He is clearly not everyone's choice and may well lose his job soon.
However if you want to break it down what exactly is it that Hull KR will gain?
Bishop Burton? The college would have Rovers there in a flash if they wanted to, it is a huge facility which can easily hold all 3 clubs youth depts.
Coaches? Most of these coaches were appointed by Lee Radford and AP, does that not mean that whilst the first team may be stuttering its way through Super League like a car with flat tyres but they have identified the key areas's for future success and have put a team in place to try and replicate the way Wigan have produced a winning side through youth? Rovers coaches may not be as well known but given the improvement in their youth set up in recent years they are clearly capable and to my knowledge the coaching staff of the merged Academy will contain a mixture of both clubs staff.
Education and Welfare etc? I'm not sure if you're aware but virtually every Academy in Super League have open doors and coaches visit each all the time to exchange ideas etc. For me, anything other than tactics (which are usually sent down from above anyway) is quite open amongst clubs and often guided by the RFL too. A lot of the schemes such as Social media awareness, drugs, alcohol etc are RFL or external schemes open to all clubs so Rovers will be using the same people anyway.
Players? The current crop are ring fenced, the future players will be split by a draft, which ultimately gives them a 50% chance of getting a player, no different to now I suspect.
Had Rovers still been a Championship side I might see the point of people not wanting to share to benefit Rovers but I don't actually see too much for them to gain that Hull will lose.'"
Not going to go through all those points, its a much simpler question for me.
FC are already bringing through more young talent than KR, far more in fact. It does seem a lot of them struggle at senior level, again that's a coaching issue (LR?). But Some of them look like future stars, Shaul being an example.
So what are KR bringing to the table that will improve on that? That's the bit I can't get my head round, all I see is that in future it's likely we will have to share that young talent. KR may not be a championship side, but their current academy is far inferior to FC's, ask the RFL.
If have a business that makes £10 and you have one that makes £5 and we merge them so we get £7.50 each who's the winner?
Any way as you say, it will certainly keep interest up after the season has finished.
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| Quote: Jimmy Carr "Not going to go through all those points, its a much simpler question for me.
FC are already bringing through more young talent than KR, far more in fact. It does seem a lot of them struggle at senior level, again that's a coaching issue (LR?). But Some of them look like future stars, Shaul being an example.
So what are KR bringing to the table that will improve on that? That's the bit I can't get my head round, all I see is that in future it's likely we will have to share that young talent. KR may not be a championship side, but their current academy is far inferior to FC's, ask the RFL.
If have a business that makes £10 and you have one that makes £5 and we merge them so we get £7.50 each who's the winner?
Any way as you say, it will certainly keep interest up after the season has finished.'"
You make valid points and as I don't really follow Hull KR that closely I may be wrong but I am pretty sure they have brought about 7 or 8 players into the first team in the last couple of seasons and apart from that Latus kid, who I remember thinking was perhaps a joke that I didn't understand, most of them seem to do ok and play quite regular.
We could argue/discuss all night if this crop are better than the Hull players who have come through and again about those that are sat waiting, the fact is I dont think it is as one sided as you say.
I would also take with a pinch of salt anything the RFL are involved in. I can well imagine Hull FC deserve to score more than Rovers in the points system but I stopped worrying about anything the RFL put their mind to a long time ago. If it is as clear cut as scoring points there is a big problem. The only thing an academy should be scored on is how many quality players come through and play in SL or the Championship in my opinion.
I like your analogy at the end but how about this one.
You have two businesses that have running costs of £10 each per year.
Business A) brings in about £7 and is running at a loss.
Business B) brings in about £5 and is running at a loss.
These companies merge with an annual running cost of £10 and bring in £12.
Is that not better for everyone involved including the shareholders?
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| It seems to me the club are agitated that they've not been able to control how this has been portrayed. They certainly seem rattled.
The thing is, the spin is getting old now and the fans are tired of it.
The fact AP is surprised at the reaction shows me he doesn't really get it.
The clubs should be concentrating on engaging schools and the amateur game to bolster playing numbers from a younger age group.
Instead they've gone for short termism cost cutting and tried to dress it up as the best way forward.
Like I said on another thread, Rovers vote for the marquee rule, then scrap their academy to piggy back ours.
The club will plough on regardless, leaving supporters to vote with their feet next year.
Sad state of affairs in what should have been a special year.
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| Quote: Irregular Hoops "It seems to me the club are agitated that they've not been able to control how this has been portrayed. They certainly seem rattled.
The thing is, the spin is getting old now and the fans are tired of it.
The fact AP is surprised at the reaction shows me he doesn't really get it.
The clubs should be concentrating on engaging schools and the amateur game to bolster playing numbers from a younger age group.
Instead they've gone for short termism cost cutting and tried to dress it up as the best way forward.
Like I said on another thread, Rovers vote for the marquee rule, then scrap their academy to piggy back ours.
The club will plough on regardless, leaving supporters to vote with their feet next year.
Sad state of affairs in what should have been a special year.'"
How do you know that the new Academy is not going to be set up to work tirelessly with the amateur clubs, schools and colleges to make sure that the talent pool is nurtured from the very beginning and helped in every dept?
Unfortunately you don't, none of us do.
Everyone is jumping the gun and presuming Hudgell and Pearson are on the make or the take.
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| Plus, any academy players that do make it to the first team are soon scapegoated or stripped of their confidence then shipped out.
It's the pathway into the first team the club should be addressing and concerned about, but that would mean employing a competant coach.
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| Quote: Monkey Lover "How do you know that the new Academy is not going to be set up to work tirelessly with the amateur clubs, schools and colleges to make sure that the talent pool is nurtured from the very beginning and helped in every dept?
Unfortunately you don't, none of us do.
Everyone is jumping the gun and presuming Hudgell and Pearson are on the make or the take.'"
No ones jumping the gun. The club have not had time to get their story straight and they're flapping about. Fans are not stupid saps that believe anything that emerges from James Clarks keyboard.
Pearson is getting into bed with an individual who would gladly put FC out of business if he could. And we're supposed to embrace it all and say nothing.
The fans are sick of it and the club will find that out when it's season pass renewal time .
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| I seem to be one of the few that find this a good thing.
Let me get the first thing off my chest: the "I don't want anything to do with Rovers" attitude is incredibly short sighted and smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face. If there are benefits to our club from working with Rovers, then work with them. If we both get stronger, so what? I want to win trophies, not out do Rovers at all costs.
Secondly, "the way Leeds do it" by "getting into schools" is a good tactic in principle, but when you consider Leeds have a population three times the size of ours with no competition to share the fruits of their labour, you see the difference in strategy. Yes, there are local West Yorkshire clubs, but then they also have huge population areas themselves that they can target. We don't. Why would/should Hull FC invest a great deal of money into getting into schools only for Rovers to pick up the fruit of their hard work? Surely a joint concentrated effort from both clubs would be more efficient and spread the workload evenly?
If both clubs can work together on youth development (that being but only building up participation numbers but also athlete development) instead of against each other, we will both succeed? In fact there are a number of ways I'd like to see the clubs work together, particularly marketing. I loved the derby posters idea. If you look at the number of billboards City have around Hull advertising fixtures compared to ours, you can see where the sports fans of this city are more likely going to pay attention.
The real rival is football, not Rovers. Are we competing for the same fans? Not really. New fans, maybe, but then they're likely to go with the club most associated with them (depending on where they're from or who their friends/family support). Why not work together to bring out the dormant rugby league fans of this city (of which there are thousands) and target them rather than both fight over new fans?
Our rivalry on the field is unique, I'd never want it to go away. It's a huge selling point for both clubs. It doesn't mean we can't work together in other areas to improve both. Neither club are producing world class players. Something major needs to change. Throwing a contract at any old amateur to fill the academy is not only a waste of money but also not benefiting the top players at that age group. The best get better by training with the best, being trained by the bbest and playing against the best. Give it a chance.
Hopefully this new merged academy will also be heavily involved in schools development also.
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69863_1359553342.jpg [b:evlmmvj5][i:evlmmvj5][color=#FF0000:evlmmvj5]If it makes you happy it can't be that bad - Sheryl Crow 1996.[/color:evlmmvj5][/i:evlmmvj5][/b:evlmmvj5]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69863.jpg |
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| Quote: Irregular Hoops "No ones jumping the gun. The club have not had time to get their story straight and they're flapping about. Fans are not stupid saps that believe anything that emerges from James Clarks keyboard.
Pearson is getting into bed with an individual who would gladly put FC out of business if he could. And we're supposed to embrace it all and say nothing.
The fans are sick of it and the club will find that out when it's season pass renewal time .'"
Frightening really.
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