Pretty much agree with this. Miller needs a full pre season before I'll judge him as he simply hasn't had any preparation to play at this level. Holdsworth got us to Wembley with a MOM performance against Wire in both attack/kicking and defence but he had a nightmare yesterday. Overall it isn't relevant to pick the halves out for specific criticism yesterday - there were 14 or 15 players that contributed to our poor play with the ball.

Wigan's completion rate was also way down on what it normally would be so that doesn't stack up. Smith won the Lance Todd because of his kicking game.

Of course it was down on what it would normally be - it plssed down for the full 80 minutes. They still controlled the ball much better than we did, which is ultimately how they won the game. Or rather, how we conspired to throw it away.

^^ THIS ^^

We managed to beat ourselves yesterday

Matty Smith showed what a half back should be doing in wet conditions yesterday.
He was head and shoulders above the other halves because his kicking game was nigh on perfect for the conditions.

That was the biggest disappointment for me. Despite how poor we were we were still in the game with less than 10 mins to go. Unfortunately we got even worse in attack as the clock ticked down. When you eventually force a goal line drop out then fail to take the kick you know you've hot rock bottom.

I said at half time it was ours to lose, and we went on to do so.

Maybe too much pressure, I don't know. We didn't even look bothered at the final whistle.

Can't blame Gentle, only two players tried yesterday, we were just rubbish.

Agree with all of your post except the players being bothered. They rightly looked absolutely gutted that they had let themselves and the club down with such a poor performance.

All the player's tried,they were brilliant in defence,but my god,they were abysmal in attack,it was like watching 5 year old's trying to catch and pass.

Yes. Doesn't seem to have been discussed at length but he clearly wasn't fit. Whether he is at fault for declaring himself ready or the club's for taking the gamble is a moot point. Horne should've played centre. Again, with hindsight, of course.

How was he clearly not fit? And how would Horne have been any fitter when he's been out for far longer?

Crooks had a mare, but it was nowt to do with fitness.

He was fit but wasnt "match fit" and it showed.....Hindsight is great...Horne should have played 6 or 7 in hindsight...prob 6 as Holdsworth does vanish in matches.

I didn't think he looked fully fit. I also thought he landed awkwardly when he missed the high ball before their first try and then looked very sluggish chasing Richards (who was accused before the match by a Wigan fan as being able to be caught by anyone shuffling on their bum, such is his loss of speed since his injury) when he was offside anyway. That's when I first said yesterday "Bugger it, Crooks isn't fit after all" as he looked nowhere near as fast as usual.

Was it fitness or match fitness? Both, I guess, and I was ecstatic to see him in the team. But with hindsight (again!) if it boiled down to how likely a returning player would cope better after months out, Horne would've been the likelier candidate, given his experience and the fact that he's returned from injury many times in his career.

Westerman is gash,can't believe people were calling him the next andy Farrell a few years back.Really frustrating player.

I think Miller is the first real scrum half we have had in years and has bags of potential. He will only get better and hasn’t been too shoddy given the scale of the task when he got to Hull. If the truth be known, I think there are a lot of young lads in the team that would not have had a look in under Agar. There have been many positives this season with the progression of young players (Tom Lineham, Ben Crooks, Josh Bowden, Chris Green et al).