In fairness sometimes MOAN is all rugby league can do. 40,000 turned up for the international at Wembley but got no coverage on ITV news which at the same time managed to mention a club RU game. Same in the "nationals" all the time. As I said previously a good bit of marketing to get that number into RUHQ and good luck to them. That said in business was 80,000 an actual "success" or just a nice number? Did they make a profit after hiring the venue, hiring 90 minutes of X Factor wannabies before the event? And if not financial are more people going to turn up to either clubs next home game?

Is this the same Welford Road Hull visited in 2004 that had two crappy stands and a club house at one end?

RU is not as big as some people think it is, especially at club level. Like was mentioned earlier, Saracens may get 40k for the off Wembley game, but they often only get 7k for home games and they lose money off these Wembley visits because they sell really cheap tickets to fill it. Most RU clubs are propped up by their governing bodies (RFU, SRU, WRU, etc.) to keep and attract top players for their international games. It's these reasons WHY we need a bigger international game and WHY we need to expand.

Success being they have created a buzz every Xmas at Twickenham. Bored males and restless kids, wifes and girlfs wanting to hit the sales, fellas wanting a sports day out - drop the price of a ticket, play it against a local rival, put it in RUHQ - thats business! Thats success!

RL can do sooooooooooo much more. However the 'chip on't shoulda' attitude of Northerners is the main anchor on progress! Even now, as a Hull FC fan, i hear people saying 'Boulevard were much better than KC'.................you are kidding me right! State of the art stadium versus a graveyard!

Is it the same Welford road as 2004? Yes, but now its a fair bit better.

Rugby Union fans support these events much better than Rugby League fans support their events. Look at the excuses Rugby League fans use not to go to Internationals, the magic weekends, the grand final, the challenge cup final. I'm sure some Rugby League wouldn't turn up even if it was free to get in and there was free beer.

Agree entirely. People look at personal preference and think that's all that should matter. "RL Is it the same Welford road as 2004? Yes, but now its a fair bit better.'"

Some of these comments taken from Brian Moore's site in 'The Telegraph' seem to support some of the things you allude to, I don't know if they are true or not:


Edward Griffiths, the CEO of Saracens, recently stated that “broadly speaking, the union makes £25 million profit while the clubs collectively lose £25 million”

Perhaps one of the reasons Griffiths’ club fails to attract more season ticket-holders is that, despite having a wealth of talent, Saracens’ play a very limited and dull game. Their contribution to the festive occasion and world record crowd of 82,000 two days ago was repeated box and high kicks and suffocating defence.

The crowds and costs at Vic Road meant that Sarries lost £5m on an £8m turnover and still became champions. Surely this can't be right.

Whilst the crowds at Wembley are impressive, how many readers realise that the tickets have been sold at discount prices or in some cases given away free? Hardly a sustainable business. If Rugby ever brought in some sort of financial fair play rule Sarries (and Bath) would be back to playing on park pitches.

This has nothing to do with the game - the fact is, if Hull had an 82k seater stadium, and you gave away 120,000k tickets in Hull for a week before an FC v KR Boxing day match - you wouldnt get more than 40k there!

I have a theory myself as to why it would only attract that number, but it would ONLY attract that many! So the fact that 82k come along to Twickenham when there are many many factors that could be used as to why they shouldnt go - is a testament to the marketing of the game.

Sometimes its not about the £££££s running through the tills, its sometimes about building up the supporter base through any initiative possible.

Something I think SL clubs would do well to take a good look at to try and emulate!

I think two big clubs in London have a much greater advantage than two big clubs in Hull. The population being a big factor!

I wouldn't compare Saracens and Harlequins to Hull and Rovers. More to Wigan and Saints (two teams at the top end of the league in a huge population centre). I reckon they could come close to selling out Old Trafford in a similar way if they tried.

Not quite true though because it wasnt just Sarries v Quins they had for instance put on a load of X factor people before the game which may have been why some many kids wanted to drag mum and dad along. So by the same analogy a step further if you put JLS on before the derby (god forbid) and gave away free tickets you would perhaps fill it. Not saying its wrong good luck to them the RFL should try the same. Just saying a large percentage weren't there to watch rugby union!

Just saying a large percentage weren't there to watch rugby union!

- but they now associate going to a RU match as a good day out! Which i would think is the aim by dropping ticket prices, getting entertainment and filling the stadium!

Job done!

The point isn't really whether the game was a financial success in its own right. Rather that by marketing the game and, at every opportunity, pushing the boundaries and getting as many people as possible to come and watch them, they are moving in the right direction as far as building a fan base for the long-term.

Their vision and their marketing abilities are to be applauded, envied and copied in RL. They know they have a long way to go to stem the losses and be less dependant upon handouts from the RFU but they are definitely giving it their all in trying to do something about it.

Rugby Union with the financial muscle from the international game is what it is. There's no point complaining about it or sniping at it. It's just a fact.

The question is what RL can do to try and close the gap?

I agree.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Union or anything that it has sttod for over the years. However, while they have tended to copy all the innovations of Rugby League over the past decade or so, one thing they have done better than League is the recent trend on big stadium one off league encounterers (as alos seen in France).

I'm hoping that Adam will also be on to this and if nothing else the aim must be be innovative enough to sell out the KC for a non Derby match in the next two years. We don't need to worry about other stadiums, however if and when the KC capacity starts to grow, then so should the ticketing innovation.

It's a nice idea but the only time we've come close to selling out ER was when we pulled in 38000-odd in 2005 - about 2k short of capacity at that time. Subsequent WCC attendances have been far lower.

They've been lower because the top tier of the stand has been shut due to not having a safety certificate. They've only recently (partly) reopened it this year, and it was partly because of the renovations going on.

The thing to be noted is that the game played Twickers & the the one they played at Wembly have because of good marketing become in a couple of years part of the social calendar of London. It may not make much or even loose money but if it continues to be popular it will make money as the tickets will become a must have for some people.
The RFL should send someone to find out how they did it & try to emulate it. Also note that American football can sellout wembly with a concerted advertising campain.