when you look at the teams that made the franchise cut it actual turned out being the teams in SL and the top 2 NL clubs so if as in previous years of promotion and relegation that the league decide to have 2 up and none down to expand Celtic would of made the cut. even if they had been relegated this season then Barrow would of been the top team with Halifax next in line. so I cant see why those decisions why just against widnes.

I actually think widnes could make a good go of SL under O'conner but I also feel a second french club could add alot to the sport wether they are ready is another question

A Parisian side will never work as RL is very regional in France as it is here. Northern France is very Union based and Southern France is League based.

Toulouse or even a Northern Spain side would be the way to go in Europe now.

Yes they are. The grass roots development there is strong, and considering the rubbish season they had, crowds were decent. And this is with many people staying away because of who owned the club.

There's enough interest there for an organisation to have sprung up already and organise a bid to run a side there in Championship One, based in Bridgend.


When did the RFL cite anything? I've been away from the PC for a while, but all I've seen so far is a rumour on RLFans started by a single poster.

I'd also be interested in how much cash has been poured into London over the years and what the return has been. I assume you have those figures to hand?

RL in Wales professionally will never work . The Welsh like the game but in Wales RU is a religion and will never be overtaken by RL.

Fair enough. I was going to suggest Spain or Toulouse knowing the success of the Barcelona gate against Wolves last season, but thought in the interests of expansion...

Friends live in a small French town in the Lot region where RL is huge. Further north than Toulouse, too. Would the thrust upwards to Paris be more welcomed in France than our limp attempt to inject down South in England?

Don't know. But the attempts to expand in Britain have been wearisome and costly. To the frustration of denied heartlands like Cumbria. Who's to say that an attempt to promote in Paris would prove less successful than London and South Wales? The French aren't as obsessed with the class distinction between Rugby League and Union as the Southerners here, after all.

I guess the main point I'm making is, why take League to those who aren't bothered when there's those that are that are deprived? delivering to demand is a certain way to expand, surely?

Book wrexham folks thats were it is been played

Crowds were awful, apart from when good Away support followed such as ours. There's also enough interest to run championship sides in Halifax, Sheffield, Dewsbury et al but that doesn't make them immediate SL material.


I'd also be interested in how much cash has been poured into Wales over the last couple of years and what the return has been. I assume you have those figures to hand? thought you was in bed gob sh-te

8 minutes after i text ye you posted on here

And the survey says.....




Your probably right, so its a blooming good job that it doesn't need too.

Some were between 7.5 million and 11 million, depending on who you talk too.

TV viewing figures for Super League are huge in London... they out weight Rugby Union. Has a lot to do with the Friday night slot but there you go. Theres a little fact for you.

So as I say, a well budgeted, well marketed business plan is key and Harlequins have never had that, not even close. Get the massive Australian community of London involved... play RL games there with Australian or American style piazaz and people will go. My job requires me to be innovative and to use a yuppy term, "think out of the box" and quite simply that is all that is required here, that and the money of course. The people and the intrest are already there and thats the biggest hurdle.

I'd go one further, if SL is to succeed in London and Wales, there needs to be local competition and so I believe that we should even be looking at were we can expand the game, rather than your idea of giving up, in those areas.

As I've already said, the London thing IS starting to pay off - after 20 years or so! - and I'm really excited about what's happening down there in terms of young people getting into the sport. RL will finally reap the rewards over the next decade BUT it has taken time and considerable bail-out money and other financial injections. London was the one we needed to crack and, yes, another team providing local competition is a sound step forward.

But why go through that pain again when expanding again? Go for another quick win and return like Catalans. Cumbria - nothern but currently an RL desert, or another French team - proven already. Somewhere that wants it, anyway.

Yes, and my point is that its only taken 20 years due to poor business planning.

Credible RL presence in both London and Wales could be achieved very quickly indeed with money and innovation. Bring a bit of flare, bring the entertainment, the proffesional cheerleaders, family entertainmnt, live music, advertise... advertise and then advertise some more and advertise it as an event - play to the strengths, advertise how exciting, fast paced the game is, advertise its family nature. There just simply not doing that at the moment, in either Wales or London.

You'll have to forgive me, I've been in the states all week and watching American football and so forth, and I think its rubbed off on me a bit, as well as the American enthusaism and flare. RL in our expansion areas, and for that matter in our established areas could really do with more of it IMO.

Heres one most people will probably laugh at, but its strikes me that RL is exactly the type of game the US would enjoy... if we could get serious backing and all of the above in place over there, I honestly believe that RL will expand far beyond just Wales. Its a very marketable game.

Personally I think we have to expand, I was unsure as to whether having a Welsh side in SL so early was a good thing, however I hope they are here to stay. They need the backing of all clubs & especially the RFL.

On the point about London:
To start quoting how many people live in London in an attempt to belittle Harlequins attendance is just ridiculous. There are so many differing reasons why it is taking a long time to get the numbers up.
1. Soccer, plus every other sport you can think of is played in schools/clubs. League is still relatively new
2. Ethnicity % of Greater London population. This has a huge effect on who will be interested.
3. London spans a huge area. Fulham/London have moved about a lot in their relatively short history so fan bases lost. Try travelling across London at any time of day and see how long it takes!
4. Marketing, as had been said already. Fairly inept & non existant, the RFL don't have a clue how to really push the game down here.
5. Schools, it is taking time but steadily the numbers are going up, parents are seeing that league is less dangerous than union, however soccer is still the big thing far and away as that's where the money is at.
LOads of others but I'm 3 sheets to the wind & its late

However the game is blossoming, my own club St.Albans cents have been in the Challenge cup a few times, won the National Conference and South London storm has mini rugby as young as u7's & all the way up to having 2 senior sides and an academy team.
Even in the local schools around St.Albans which is a massive union heartland our coach has gotten leagues going. We even had an u14's 9's day in August were a team from West Hull came down along with a Northampton team. The Northampton team won BTW.
It will take time for expansion and for the game to really take off away from the heartlands could take another 10-20 years but only IF the RFL can develop it properly. Sadly I just don't think the present encumbants have the ability to do so. I wish I could say we will have a truly national proffesional league in the future but the ways things are panning out I can't see it happening in the next 50 years that's for certain.

Oh Boy I had to check I was still on RL fans you do talk a lot of sense, in fact a lot of good reasoning all round, its simple we have a really great, great product, but our administrators and some of the newer clubs have no idea what the market is or even which segments they need to attract, its all magic and development, a sort of announce a team and they will come mentality that time and tie again has failed.

With some out of the box thinking and a lot of measured and strategic ground work we could expand successfully but tragically the quality of the product is once again being tarnish by the RL's inaility to get things right from the off and now with the move to wrexham and the new championship one club in South Wales we are just seeing the back covering by the RL that always comes along to try and save face.

The move will be a disaster or at least take years to come to any sort of fruition. Whilst the RL save face, the money they spend on doing so would be better channelled ito estalished clubs who are having a torrid time at the moment. There is no point in expanding in an ad hoc way if the established clubs fall by the wayside.

The Visagate affair, lack of promised ground improvements, quality of squad, poor attendances etc.etc. bear all the hallmarks of previous failed excursions into the realms of expansion.

But there is no doubt that history proves that we will now pour money into the black hole of Northy Wales an area with no infrastucture, whilst in the mean time, teams like Wakey will be on the brink and Rovers losing £8000 a week. With several others relying on Sugar Daddies to keep going. Measured, calculated and pre determined development and expansion is right but not at the expense of heartland clubs, one or more of whom will go under soon!!

Working outside the box....... I could not agree more....... however sadly I don't think that the RL has even got into the box yet!!!