If he's thinking about the CC then we might have a chance. We're not going to be challenging for the SL title though.

I know, imagine how bad I'd be if I were a woman

He's hardly going to say anything different in the mail though is he?

Nope. That's why I don't pay much attention to these kinds of articles. Plus I'd expect the players to be more optimistic than the fans TBH - they pretty much have to be.

IF this and IF that. Bad as we were we would have beaten Salford in 2009 CC round IF Ian Smith wasn't the only human being in Hull to miss the forward pass. That's irrelevant as well. Ifs and buts count for nowt. Fact is we were 13 mins from lifting the CC in 2008 with an 8 stone off half and a crocked stand in full back.

Maybe he needs to be teaching the team the Grabbing technique!!!!

I beg to differ, we caught a cruising Saints side by surprise with a breakaway try. I still didn't honestly believe we were going to win, we were outplayed.

And IF we had beaten Salford, so what? Are they a strong enough yardstick to prove that we are a strong knockout side after all?

Our knockout record against SL sides under Agar is played 6, lost 4, the 2 wins the aforemention Bradford and Wakefield. We've actually lost the last 4.

Not said anywhere we're a strong knockout side. All I said was that Agar took us to Wembley in 2008. You appear to want to belittle that achievement which is your prerogative. Agar is trying to improve the team. If he continues to do that, as he did last year good on him. If he doesn't goodbye.

With one game to go we could of finished 4th so about 4th or above and i will be happy bacause it is a improvement on last season.Anything else and i would say we have gone backwards again.

Wrong thread

All I've said is that we have a real weakness when it comes to knockout competition. Agar's approach seems to be to try and fix the problems from a game during the week in time for the next match, but that is not possible in the knockout stages. That's why I can't see us winning a trophy under him.

Making the CC Final is an achievement, as is making the playoffs, but neither mean that we are any threat in them. We should be, but I fancy that currently we are one of the teams the big boys hope to draw at crunch time.

I think it's more down to the quality of side. Agar is trying to improve ours. If he does I'd expect more success in the cup and playoffs. If he doesn't - well as above. We got to Wembley in 2008 thanks in the main to Adam Dykes - a top quality playmaker. He didn't play in the final and we lost. Better players will in the main produce more success. I'm not sure we've had good enough players in key positions in recent years to expect to be beating top sides in knockout games with any regularity.

Whereas I think it's more down to our one-dimensional approach. If a team is capable of bottling us up, we don't have a plan b to turn the game in our favour.

You highlight our lack of a playmaker and I agree it's a factor. The problem I have with that though, is that it should not be so heavily down to our playmaker to be responsible for our success or failure. At some point our coach should be able to influence the game with the players at his disposal, not just resort to the basics and hope for the best.

And lastly, it's not that we don't beat top sides in knockout games with regularity, we don't beat top sides in knockout rugby at all at the moment.

We'll have to disagree about playmakers. They've always been key since I've been watching - behind a competent pack of course. In the modern game they are even more vital as they often provide the kicking game required to push back the opposition and create scoring opportunities. So they are by definition a vital part of a team's success. It's why they tend to be expensive to hire (good ones that is). Leuluai/Tompkins, Burrow/Maguire/Sinfield, Long/Pryce/Eastmond, Briers/Monaghan and even Brough/Brown/Drew are all better than what we've had and the relative success of their respective teams is proof of that. Our recruitment of this type of player in recent seasons has been woeful - a major contributor to our recent lack of success IMO.