There's little wonder you are struggling with the arguments presented to you on here, if your comprehension of Mrs B's post is anything to go by. Just where has she suggested that it's a soccer v rugby issue?

OK then, your comment "it turns out" is a bit hazy. Perhaps you could share who your sources are that say it's normal to have a £3k plan as a basis for demanding a £40m asset before negotations can even commence. I'd suggest that, rather than my experience, is a “singular” situation.



It's an asset because it generates future economic value. The council don’t have to spend anything on it as that’s the responsibility of the SMC who are responsible for its custodianship and upkeep. The stadium costs the council next to nothing to run. That’s the point of the SMC agreement.


Removing it as the pre-requisite would be the blindingly obvious first step, then, surely?



They're willing to gift a sporting venue allocated under planning policy for sporting activities for Allam’s sporting gift. Their alternative intentions for the KC/West Park site are, in all probability, the same as they were 10 years ago, namely to house the club’s two largest professional sporting clubs and provide the appropriate volume of carparking, provide a site for the fairground with hundreds of thousands of visitors, and retain park areas for the people of West Hull. I’m not too sure they would have dreamt up a plan for a supermarket and “boutiques” on West Park given the vacancy rates in sequentially preferable sites in the city centre. It seems to me evident that the council have already been too generous in retail consents in the centre, to the extent that supply outstrips demand. It would be inappropriate if they were focussing on putting money into another out of town site when businesses are vacating Kingston Park and other units in the already sprawling city centre. If they had, I doubt the local populace would have been giddy at the prospect.

Would it be nice to have an Olympic sized swimming pool here, and an ice rink, and squash courts? Possibly, although outside of London I'm not sure how many cities have two ice rinks, so you could say the requirement is tenuous. If anything, what should be remembered is that even in the extreme case that Allam "gifts" all these fantastic sporting facilities to the city, it's highly likely that the council will be on the hook to pay the running costs ongoing. In my experience, there's a reason why municipal facilities are municipal facilities, and it's because they run at a loss that the council would have to sign up for in perpetuity. They might love the idea of underwriting the costs of not one but two ice arenas within 2 miles of each other, but in the current economic environment, I'd suggest it would be unlikely and, frankly, a bit stupid.

Exactly, Mrs B.

The fact is that there simply is no need for development of West Park or the Fairground - if fact, to do so would be heinous crimes.

There could be an argument for development of the land east of the stadium - the apparent waste land to either side of the walkway between Argyle street and the KC, between the railway lines. Not actually sure who owns this - is it the Council?

However, even here, there is no requisite for a retail park of any description. A leisure park would be nice but only if self sufficient and, frankly, in light of the use of existing Council facilities, it probably isn't going to be. So Heigh Ho. No crucial pressing need for development at all - despite the Red Herring Blind Uncle Harry keeps chucking up in the air.

A retail park would be inappropriate given the devastating effect even current overkill has had on the city centre and existing retail complexes, and would give nothing to the community at all.

So, in direct contrast to BUH 's assertions, it is the council who can afford to sit back and do nothing - and rightly so, there being no need for imminent action. It's the Allams - for whom it is essential they get their hands on the KC - who must therefore approach the Council with humility and an astounding idea that doesn't involve shops.

They can't - not possible in the current climate. That's why the Council feel safe in calling their bluff.

No, foolish would be someone STILL trying to claim I'm saying the Allam's are right, despite me pointing out many times that's not my position.

Little wonder the rest of the discussion's lost on you.

Funny Uncle Harry. Are you trying to be fatuous? Being deliberately obtuse? Or merely only reading half the posts again?

West Park - a Victorian haven for the last century, the only emerald of that area of Anlaby Road - cannot be 'developed'. To raze it would be a crime. The fairground hosts a unique and enormous attraction and has a tradition spanning a thousand years. For the rest of the year it is utilised semi-weekly as Hull's market - generating business - attracting and catering for the needs of thousands. Development there? Yep a new surface and a few trees would be nice. All major European towns have a large municipal central area dedicated to the town's market.

I've said the area to the east of the stadium could have a valid argument for development, but not sure who owns it. Did you ignore that bit of my post?

Which of the above do you disagree with?

What do I disagree with?

Your claim of me not reading posts for a kick off. The pointless ramble about razing west park, when I'd not mentioned it. The 1000's of years of history of the fair at Walton Street. Walton Street being central, and a place already exists for the "market" you laughably describe the trading standards exercise yard as. Your claim some grass and trees would sort out the area around west park.

I didn't ignore the bit of your post that talked of the area around the stadium. It agreed with what I'd put!

All you seem to do is to counter anything anyone has posted which doesn't toe the allam party line. What do you think should be happening here?

My understanding of the reported "facts" (And as far as I know there is no documentary evidence to prove these are wrong) areallam met the council and proposed they gifted him the KC and surrounding area so that he could develop a sports and retail village

The council declined but instead offered him a (less prime?) site further out from the city centre, which he declined to accept

allam then effectively took his bat home and said he would no longer deal with the council

The council have said that the door is still open for further negotiation if he wants to come back

Now I may be wrong with some of that and if I am please let me know.

So we're left with a business man who wants a prime piece of land for nothing, to include a public park and the council's £40m sports stadium so he can build a mix of leisure and retail development at a cost of circa £100m

My first concern would be the availability of funding for such a development and the second would be the ability to generate enough revenue to service such a sizeable debt. The city already has significant retail space standing empty. If all that would happen would be duplication of what is already in hull then the build would be pointless and wouldn't generate further wealth in the area.

If allam can get some guarantee of a flagship store as an anchor tenant then it would certainly be worth consideration. If he can't, then why should the council be the ones to make all the running.

IMO, the council's inward investment team know that all allam wants is something to show for the £40m+ he's forked out on city and that he believes the local authority are the ones who should give him it. They also know that he hasn't got anything which even approximates a definitive plan for the site and that the chances of a successful development are somewhere close to nil.

If there is an opportunity to develop the site then surely this should go out to some kind of bidding process anyway and allam would be entitled to be involved in this along with anyone else

rlAnd the story rumbles on.............rl

Why hold a referendum, the elected councillors have made a decision from a position of far greater knowledge than the man on the street. Referendums are a pure cop out by the politicians.

If the public of Hull vote to back Allam will that make his lack of plans any more substantial??

This is a similar issue to the vote on the EU, asking the general public (a high % of which aren't the brightest) to cast a vote on something they either don't understand, or that their understanding comes from a great source like the Sun, is ludicrous.

All referendums are decided by which way the media decides it wants them to go rather than the decision which is for the good of the public.

Agree with the points you make. Also how much is the referendum going to cost the people of Hull?

Probably a fortune, this may also be a ploy to try and get more people to turn up and vote at the local elections.

Absolutely spot on. Referenda are a colossal waste of time and money, and actually detrimental to democracy.