Have to disagree with that. When you factor in the loss of Carvell, the non-arrival of Crocker, and the general diabolical crapness of Thorman I think we'd be doing well to be in the lower reaches of the 8 at best.

Agar has some problems as a coach, but he is also trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And if the rumours of our salary cap spend are anything like accurate then he's trying to do it with around 2/3rds of the cash of most other coaches.

My main problems with him lie with his unprofessionalism, technical deficiencies, and seeming inability to get the best out of his limited resources rather than our league position as such.

Well I guess that is a matter of opinion. But I would say categorically yes.

It's difficult to argue otherwise TBH. Wire have superior players to ours in many positions, and their pack in particular is far better than ours.

I dont think there is a great deal of difference between the 2 squads but Warrington are better in the most important areas of the field. Morley and carvell to lay the platform and Briers pulling the strings, erratic though he can be.

Player like the Andersons, Hick, bridge, Riley are no better then their Hull equivalent IMO.

Far better coached though.

In terms of ability, or application?

Ours SHOULD be a match for almost anyone, ifonly they could be bothered!

IMO in terms of ability. Their application varies somewhat, as evidenced at the weekend.

I think that the squad we have, without serious injury problems, is good for scraping into the playoffs AT BEST. It lacks quality in too many crucial areas, especially the pack and halfbacks.

Smith has had a few months with his players...Agar has had a season and a half, give Smith the same time and he will have Warrington at the right end of the table, regardless of what players he has at his disposal.

Comparing Smith and Agar is like comparing Wenger and Martinez (at Wigan FC)

and centre, wing and full back, 2nd row could do with some work too.

Although our water carrier is top of the OPTA stats

We're also near the top in the 'Standing Under The Posts Staring At The Ground' table.

Both. For a start they signed our best forward last year and have a way better pack than ours. Yet still thay are not much further up than us in the table.

Your second point I agree with to a degree. Except to say that the better players who play in teams that win things have a personal drive to be successful. It's what sets them apart from those who try hard and may even have some ability but generally it up the wall and remain average. We would appear to have a number of those average types and one of the club's big failings in recent years has been to award this mediocre attitude with fat new contracts.

I think that that is fair. I get the feeling that Kear would have done better with this squad although it's difficult to judge. IMO Agar does have deficiencies because he is an inexperienced coach. I also think that one of the advantages of having no relegation is that we can not only, bring inexperienced British players through the system but bring inexperienced coaches through as well. Next year he will also have the coaching input of some of the most experienced players in the world. Bradford, who are doing worse than Hull, are standing by Macca (I think) for the same reason whilst they go through a rebuilding programme. Kath's attempts in the programme to explain how the salary cap has affected Hull this year is an example of her support for Agar and her frustration at the position FC find themselves in. I understand and empathise with people who want success now and to get rid of Agar but it is my hope he proves to be a worthwhile investment for the future. I'm not sure myself that he is - I just want to give him a chance with a fair roll of the dice. Next year will see him with no hiding place because surely the visa issues and injuries can't repeat.

My point was in answer to a specific post about our error rate. Wire made millions of errors at the weekend. How do you explain that with Smith in charge ? He hasn't had long enough to teach them to catch ?