FORUMS > Hull FC > It's the end of the season can we have a proper Agar debate |
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| Quote: Big Dave T "and i get abused when i use stats!!
You do Statto but not from me!
Not beaten a team by 31 points or more in 3 years is alarming.
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| Quote: knocker norton "You do Statto but not from me!
The win ratio and net points difference gives a real indication of our negative playing style under Agar. It kind of backs up my rants at the start of the year about boring rugby.
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| Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "I don't understand how you say this season was written off after the amount of money we spent on the marquee signigns of Long, Fitz and O'Meley.'"
Well, that's because I didn't say that ! Next season will be written off as one with the odd good performance/result but ultimately, no chance of silverware (like this one)
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| 16 wins this year is a decent return, especially as you continued to struggle to consistently put out a settled hb pairing. Unfortunately for Agar the season drifted a bit at the end (although he couldn't have afforded a slow start to the year) and the play-off defeat came against the worst possible opponent - it wouldn't have been so bad vs Huddersfield, for example. A victory would have been against the best possible opponent, of course, and then the memories would have been more of the rousing double over Saints and three (or even 4!) derby wins. Though hard not to today, it is unfair to judge progress on one game - and I'd think the same if you'd won and were getting carried away with Old Trafford here we come threads.
That said you are very one dimensional, struggle to be at your best consistently and if you want to be competing on an even footing with the very best teams you need to squeeze more value out of the cap.
The stats post was fair and interesting, but Agar only took over midway through 2008 iirc, so is the end of Sharp's reign being included there?
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| Quote: carl_spackler "I'm not sure if that's a pop at Agar or defending him TBH. Are you saying the other clubs wouldn't stand for it, or that it's down to the players we have here that dictate our dour rugby?'"
I'm saying that with the same players he would have achieved less
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| Quote: Mild Rover "16 wins this year is a decent return, especially as you continued to struggle to consistently put out a settled hb pairing. Unfortunately for Agar the season drifted a bit at the end (although he couldn't have afforded a slow start to the year) and the play-off defeat came against the worst possible opponent - it wouldn't have been so bad vs Huddersfield, for example. A victory would have been against the best possible opponent, of course, and then the memories would have been more of the rousing double over Saints and three (or even 4!) derby wins. Though hard not to today, it is unfair to judge progress on one game - and I'd think the same if you'd won and were getting carried away with Old Trafford here we come threads.
That said you are very one dimensional, struggle to be at your best consistently and if you want to be competing on an even footing with the very best teams you need to squeeze more value out of the cap.
The stats post was fair and interesting, but Agar only took over midway through 2008 iirc, so is the end of Sharp's reign being included there?'"
Nice as it is for us that you have enlightened us with your thoughts, not one of us who wants rid of Agar are saying it based on one match. We have been dished up pathetic rugby for several years now. Very few of us if any can see an end to the current style or form. Enough is enough now. Agar stated he would be judged on results and would walk if he felt he had failed. Well if he is true to his word now is the time to go so that we can start a fresh in November when the squad start training again. That said I am certain if he did do that Last would be head coach by xmas.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "I'm saying that with the same players he would have achieved less'"
Then I tend to agree. The biggest concern I have with him is that I don't think he is willing to play the type of rugby to compete for trophies. There's a case argued that it's down to the players not being good enough that forces us to play basics first to try and get the best from them, but I'm not entirely buying that.
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| Quote: DC W1 "Nice as it is for us that you have enlightened us with your thoughts, not one of us who wants rid of Agar are saying it based on one match. We have been dished up pathetic rugby for several years now. Very few of us if any can see an end to the current style or form. Enough is enough now. Agar stated he would be judged on results and would walk if he felt he had failed. Well if he is true to his word now is the time to go so that we can start a fresh in November when the squad start training again. That said I am certain if he did do that Last would be head coach by xmas.
we was 1 game away from finishing 4th. with what we had dealt yet again this season i dont think he has failed. The only dissapointing thing for me is i would like to have won 1 play off game. So for me we wasnt a million miles away from what i expected from the season. Did you expect more? win 2 play off games? make the final? maybe your expectations were set too hig at the start of the year
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| Quote: carl_spackler "Then I tend to agree. The biggest concern I have with him is that I don't think he is willing to play the type of rugby to compete for trophies. There's a case argued that it's down to the players not being good enough that forces us to play basics first to try and get the best from them, but I'm not entirely buying that.'"
agar learnt his trade under 2 boring coaches who played % rugby. It's not his fault. If he'd worked under a couple of top class coaches then things might be different. The rugby we play is one dimensional and boring. It's 100% down to the coach. No one else is to blame. Whoever is on the field it's the same.
We are definitely the worst side in SL to watch
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "agar learnt his trade under 2 boring coaches who played % rugby. It's not his fault. If he'd worked under a couple of top class coaches then things might be different. The rugby we play is one dimensional and boring. It's 100% down to the coach. No one else is to blame. Whoever is on the field it's the same.
We are definitely the worst side in SL to watch'"
I share the sentiment of the first bit, but the last bit is too much. I think we're better than Bradford to watch.
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| I'm not really a "stats" person but, for a side still in with a shout of 4th spot in the last week of the season, our points difference was an absolute embarrassment. If that alone doesn't indicate what Agar's HUll FC is like to watch, what does ?
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "I share the sentiment of the first bit, but the last bit is too much. I think we're better than Bradford to watch.
When orford was fit, bradford were a much more entertaining side than us.
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| Quote: Mild Rover "16 wins this year is a decent return, especially as you continued to struggle to consistently put out a settled hb pairing. Unfortunately for Agar the season drifted a bit at the end (although he couldn't have afforded a slow start to the year) and the play-off defeat came against the worst possible opponent - it wouldn't have been so bad vs Huddersfield, for example. A victory would have been against the best possible opponent, of course, and then the memories would have been more of the rousing double over Saints and three (or even 4!) derby wins. Though hard not to today, it is unfair to judge progress on one game - and I'd think the same if you'd won and were getting carried away with Old Trafford here we come threads.
That said you are very one dimensional, struggle to be at your best consistently and if you want to be competing on an even footing with the very best teams you need to squeeze more value out of the cap.
The stats post was fair and interesting, but Agar only took over midway through 2008 iirc, so is the end of Sharp's reign being included there?'"
Agar was in charge for more or less the whole of 2008 as Sharp had gone by May, I discounted the 2007 season intentionally as far as the stats where concerned as I had though Sharp had gone in 2007 however this wasn't the case. One area my stat post may have been slightly unfair is that in terms of entertainment McRea seemed to produce the greatest return on investment as he ended the 2004 season with a plus 365 points difference and also beat 4 teams by more than 31 points, 4 teams by 21-30 and 5 by 11-20 (it was the year we dusted Salford and Widnes by more than 70 points each) so essentially McRea did more in one season than the next 3 coaches could muster in the last 6 in!! Whilst I appreciate we've won the Challenge Cup (my greatest day as an FC fan) and also been to Old Trafford (the year we finished 2nd 50% of our 20 wins came by 10 points or less and we only won 1 by 31 or more) in those 6 years we have IMOH seen a dramatic decline in quality and entertainment since McRea left the club and the stats would certainly appear to back this up.
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| Quote: BlackNwhite "we was 1 game away from finishing 4th. with what we had dealt yet again this season i dont think he has failed. The only dissapointing thing for me is i would like to have won 1 play off game. So for me we wasnt a million miles away from what i expected from the season. Did you expect more? win 2 play off games? make the final? maybe your expectations were set too hig at the start of the year'"
A negative points difference.
Defeats and failure to compete against Wigan and Wire.
Defeats at Crusaders (and a lucky home victory in poor style) Salford, Wakey, Quins in Scotland.
A total inability to play two decent halves back to back. See Saints H, Bradford away, Quins away, Huddersfield away.
A total inability to a) get our 6 and 7 on the park AGAIN and b) to even look like coaching a new pairing or buying a new pairing.
Back to back Leeds games in league and cup when we totally failed to show up.
The inability to appear to be up for yesterday's game.
Other than all the above I would say its a success this season. Take a bow Mr Agar you have done us proud.
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| Quote: thehullwhitestar "Well, that's because I didn't say that !
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