What did you want Agar to do last season, takes us from 12th to the top 3? To challenge for 4th was about the best we could expect and we did about as well as we could.

There is a new challenge for him now, he has to improve our league position and also the fans would like to be entertained more. That said I would not mind if our boring rugby took us to a final.

When Brown came over he had very little pedigree and would not have been hailed as a great capture by the board. He had a fantastic squad to work with at the Dragons but never produced. Maguire may have been at the best club around but that is largely down to the fact that Bellamy is regarded as the best coach around along with Bennett. There were no certainties about how he would perform. Daniel Anderson was another when he came to Saints.

So yes I can say with great certainty that either of these two coaches will have been met with some apprehension by the fans as neither came accross with top billing.

You never quite know how things will turn out, plenty of aussies have come over and failed. Yes there are potentially better coaches around than Agar and my belief is that a new head coach along with a new backroom team is what is needed for us to compete for silverware. The fact is however that Agar had to get the team back in the playoffs last season and he did. He now has to improve us again and if not he will be gone.

Well to be honest yes I did, unrealistic maybe but IMO entirely fair given that before last season he'd had a full 1 1/2 season's where he was completely unaccountable for results.

The club had been in and around the top four in the seasons prior to Agar's arrival, on top of that we regularly won playoff games and even reached a grand final. When Agar took over we were fed the line that the squad simply wasn't up to challenging and root & branch reform was required before we could be back up there. In the proceeding 2 full seasons he's hard in charge he's served up abject failure in the first one and relative failure in the second, all the while playing the most one-dimensional mind numbing rugby in the competition. You could make the case that even if we were to finish 4th next season and win a playoff game it would be a failure since all he'd done was take 3/12 seasons to replicate the position we were in the season before he took over!

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I don't stick up for Agar I just look at it from a balanced perspective and there are things I think he has done well and things I want improved. You can moan on here all year long it won't make a bit of difference to Agar being employed with us or not.

Brown and Maguire were not classed as top quality coaches, no matter how you dress it up. One had constantly failed with a top class team and the other had only ever been a number two. If we had announced either one of them it would have been met on here with 'who' 'what have they ever done' etc etc. There is no guarantee when bringing over players or a coach and sometimes a less known name might be a better option as they have something to prove.

So who would you replace Agar with?

whats graham murray up to these days

The 'who, what have they ever done' bit is nonsense especially in the context of how people reacted when we appointed Rich Agar. Plenty of people condemned the decision but plenty took the 'he deserves his chance' attitude, deserves it on the basis of what? is the question I found myself asking repeatedly.

Here's one for you, if we pretend that there aren't any better coaches in the NRL and pretend we couldn't possibly recruit a coach from an existing SL team... then there is absolutely no reason why Karl Harrison is coaching in the national league and Rich Agar has a SL job.

Don't get me wrong I don't want him as our coach but there's an extremely strong case to be made that Harrison is far better and more suited to coaching us than Agar and it illustrates how sorry our coaching situation is at the moment.

It's not nonsesne, it's how people reacted and the point was Brown or Maguire can hardly be classed as top coaches. Also I did not say we could not get better in the NRL, I have already stated we could.

Is that your answer then, get rid of Agar and appoint Harrison. Oh dear!

You lost any credibility you had when you mentioned Harrision.

That was so predictable.. you know aswell as I do that Harrison has a better coaching record than Agar and he did it with far fewer resources. That was the point I was making and why I clearly stated that appointing Harrison wasn't my answer.

Re Maguire and Brown, the supporters stomached the Agar appointment despite him having no track record of head coaching at the top level, it's reasonable to say therefore that the supporters would have been far more pleased with an appointment from the NRL even if they hadn't pulled up any trees there or actually been head coach there. As it turns out they would have been right to be!

Why? I never said I rated Harrison but...

FC favourite and GB International Vs. No top level playing experience

Experience as assistant at successful Bradford Bulls Regime vs. Experience as assistant at two failed FC regimes

5 years at Salford, extremely limited resources but highlight of a 6th place finish and one playoff appearance vs. 2 1/2 years at Hull FC, spending at full cap, highlight of a 6th place finish and one playoff appearance

Relegated with Salford vs. Finished in relegation position were it not for expansion and abolition of P&R

Norther Rail Cup Winner vs. ?

Neither man comes across in the media as being the 'sharpest tool in the shed' but Harrison at least has charisma and the ability to command respect.

Other than the ability to convince the board that he's the man for the job what does Agar have over Harrison?

Nothing they are both poor