Actually a fixed penalty for a traffic offence (except parking) is criminal not civil.

Civil penalities are a means of raising revenue. In effect the government is saying "Give us some money and we won't prosecute you and you won't get a criminal record."

Prosecuting people through the courts on the other hand is expensive and costs the government money.

Even worse some of the pesky blighters get off due to technicalities, such as being innocent.

So what's your solution?

If you've broken the law you should be dealt with by the criminal courts.

Its then up to the government to prove your guilt, not you to prove your innocence (well at least it is at the moment).

If you are guilty you should be punished.

If you're innocent you go free.

Simples.

Its worked for 1000 years so why change it?

So people employing illegal workers in advertently should be dragged through the courts?

So you'd suggest that every single person caught doing 34mph in a 30mph limit should be brought to trial?

Couldn't agree more.

The fact that Companies House managed to sneak in a 150% increase in penalties this year has convinced me even more!

I wonder if the Baroness was convicted and goaled for this , the whole of the Celtic Crusaders would be with her - same thing me thinks. The UK Border Agency stopped Michael Crocker coming ( until he sneaks under and joins Rovers with the help of Baroness Scotland.)
They are doing there job but some want it all ways.

Totally agree Dave

That's right. There are now so many things that are illegal its possible for ordinary people and employers to break the law without intending to or even knowing they were doing it.

However when the government or a politician or the local council or the police do it there is always some excuse that makes it ok.

No - and such people have the right to go to court if they choose to.

What I'm saying is we need to stay away from a situation where the police/government investigate the offence AND decide on guilt or innocence AND decide on the sentence, or we are heading for a totalitarian state.

Spot on. But she will keep hanging on until the last.

When I fought the law , the law won.

Unfortunately this bunch of misfits have managed to introduce 3,000 extra offences in their twelve years in power - that's two for every day that Parliament has sat. Most have been the result of dog-whistle politics and pandering to newspaper editors who claim to represent middul ingerland.

The latest one "Independent Vetting & Barring" starts from the premise that evryone is a potential child molester. It wouldn't be too bad if it was called "Independent Vetting & Accepting", at least that way there would still be the presumption of innocence.

For any laws to be workable, they should be simple to understand and transparent to administer fairly, without prejudice or favor. Only that way can all realise that an action (or failure to act) can be unlawful and only then can everyone have no complaint if they're caught bang to rights

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Politicians, of all parties, are social misfits. It's hard to identify more than a handful (of the high profile ones certainly) that you can imagine having a pint with and a Joe-Public-type-conversation. They are so detached as well because of the rules that we have to follow that they don't. For years they have protected pipe-tobacco from rises in taxation that would be in line with other tobacco, they put alcohol duty up and have their own "duty-free" bar in the commons, they keep ram-raiding private pensions but have their own final salary pension that protects them, they have a "parachute payment" in case they're voted out but it's way above the statutory payment that we might receive for redundancy, they don't have to worry about stamp duty - particularly on a second home whereas we're not allowed similar assistance with second homes - they chose politics - I and many others place of work is where the customer is but there are no... perhaps I ought to stop there, this horse is getting a bit too high...I'm getting a nose bleed.