That's a very scary statistic.

I disagree, we came out with much more intent in the second half so something was said.

I don't think we were that bad last night we had enough chances to win the game, more than they did but they took their chances and we never.

Their defence won them the game.

I agree with bits and pieces of what a lot of people have said . I think it has being a improvement on last season and so it should be with better players . What worries me is I can't see where the improvement will be next year , we need a half and a prop but who's available who would add to our side rather than just adding for the sake of it . 2012 like Paul M said will be the big year for recruitment but you can't just dismiss a year and fall behind teams again who have strengthend. We have got some good players but then the rest of the team are made up of very average players . Just feel the club needs to make a sign of intent go and get a couple of good players who would add to our team .As for Agar I feel is he someone who will get us silverware I can't see it at all very much like the warrington situation before they got Tony Smith

With the salary cap (providing all clubs adhere to it) a squad will always have "average" players. Its (should be) impossible to have 25 star men in a squad. The big question then is what do you achieve with the average players.

A good coach will turn the average into above average and the star men will thrive on them. The last time that actually happened with a Hull FC team was under Brian Smith. He managed to do it consistantly. Other coaches such as Kear have been able to do on the odd game. see the 2005 cup campaign.
With a proper salary cap it is vitally important we have a coach who does a Smithy.

Agar is not that man.

Far too often this season players have failed to turn up and perform and whilst that is down to the individual as much as anything else. Its also a collective problem and that starts from the headman. Given so many players rate Agar I find it very difficult to appreciate that on so many occassions they have failed to put their bodies on the line for him. I have worked under many bosses in my life and the ones I respected always got 100% from me. I don't see that happening at Hull FC and that for me is a big problem which has to be resolved in the coming months and not in 12 months time when we have failed to deliver anything meaningful again.

Not for who we are playing

simple replace him with a coach

I regularly read post's with interest but very rarely post. I have read with interest the regular Agar out/in threads that seem to be posted weekly and have bounced backwards and forwards over the year as to what my real opinion of him as a coach (not a person) is. I have followed Hull since 1999 so I'm not as seasoned as some of the fans that post on here but I have experienced a few different coaching setups now and I can honestly say that throughout my time as a fan I have never enjoyed my rugby less. I no longer get excited in the build up to match days like I used to and have even found myself wondering whether I can even be bothered to go to certain games due the level of tripe we have become renowned for serving up.

I have found myself bemused at times by Agars tactics on the field, I cannot understand why in such a physical game as ours you would name players on the bench and then either not utilise them at all or save them until the last 10 mins of a game. I then find myself wondering why when players seem to play more than well enough to warrant inclusion in the following weeks team they are inexplicably dropped.

I support Hull FC and because of this have always wanted (and always will while he is still here) Agar to succeed however it is the style of rugby that is played under him that concerns me the most, I would rather lose 27 games a year and see us play like we did against Leeds than see us win 27 games like we did against the Crusaders as an example.

I was concerned that I might just be getting caught up in the Agar bashing and just using him as someone to blame so I did a bit of digging and came up with the following stats.

Agar has now had 3 full seasons in charge, he has played 81 League fixtures during that time. We have won 33 Lost 47 and Drawn 1, he has a 41% win ratio in the league. Of the 33 fixtures he has won 18 have been by a winning margin of 1-10 points 11 by 11-20 and 4 between 21-30 we have not won a game by 31 points of more in the 3 years he has been in charge (I didn't look at cup games). We have scored 1583 points and conceeded 1906 - a deficit of 323 points with an average of 19.5 points per game.

If you contrast Agars stats with those of 2004,05 & 06 we played 84 games in the league Won 54 Lost 26 and Drew 4, we had a 64% win ratio in the league. Of the 54 games we won 25 by a winning margin of 1-10 points, 15 by 11-20, 7 by 21-30 and 7 by 31 points or more. We scored a total of 2319 points and conceeded 1726 - a positive of 593 (916 points greater than Agars) and an average of 27.6 points per game.

I can't help but look at these and think it demonstrates we have some serious issues in the setup somewhere and you have got to look at the coaching setup as starting point surley. It is true that this season has been our best out of the three but our winning margins are still terrible having won 9 by 1-10 5 by 11-20 and just 2 by 21-30.

I'm not sure where the club go from here but unfortunately it's a clear Agar out for me I'm afraid.

A very well thought out post with some very intersting points and stats.

With posts like that you should really post more. As Agar is such a huge fan of stats (Well when they show something positive) it is good to see that others can actually see he just is not up to the job.

My whole thoughts on this are quite clear. Agar is not good enough and never will be. The team plays dire rugby which is illustrated by our points scored in the league. If you look at the whole make up of the squad its just a mish mash of . If there is any form of plan for the team then i cant see it. Too many ageing players that will have to be replaced within two years. A pack full of foreigners who at best will prob leave after a couple of years anyway meaning more rebuilding. Both half backs finished and need replacing though we'll probably go down the Ozzie route again and the cycle will continue. The team is a complete and utter mess and will not win a thing for at least five years.

That's all well and good Paul but what about next season ? Is that just going to be written off as another season like this one ? Maybe make the eight and get one play-off game, suffer with the same HB problems with Long never there and Horne totally anonymous whether he's there or not.

We've clearly missed out on some good signings for next season and with Agar still in charge and a very similar squad, it is very difficult to be even remotely optimistic about 2011.

Getting a proper and proven coach immediately would be a good start to this "5 year plan"

Excellant post, well thought out and researched. Well done mate.

I don't understand how you say this season was written off after the amount of money we spent on the marquee signigns of Long, Fitz and O'Meley.