FORUMS > Hull FC > Going |
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| Quote: Ian P "Paul Cooke had a regular position and one main coach for his formative years ..................bomber'"
He also had some experienced ball players to learn from, something Lee hasn't had.
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| Quote: Ian P "Tommy Lee is an example of what is wrong with coaching set up at FC, he had good decision making and they have coached it out of him. The Horne borthers have all suffered from not having a settled position, Yeaman should be a second rower by now. The club has a long history of missing players by trying to make them into something the are not.
Tommy was a gifted ball handler and those of us who have watched his developement at West Hull over the years will be amazed how he has changed. I see him slowing down to think now before he makes pass, the3 coaches and the bo boys hjave done that. I hope he does change clubs and goes on to become the player many of know is in there it just needs a decent patient coach to bring it back out.
Westerman and Welham where both at FC, two examples I can think of where good players have slipped through the net. We keep kidding ourselves that our junior set up is the best, its not its bloody dire at times. We are ruining more then we are producing and we not producing any half backs of note at the moment.'"
Top post Ian.
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| Quote: ditchley16 "talking about not producing half backs at the moment.could anyone tell me when was the last time ,hull or rovers for that matter last produced a top class scrum half of any real note.ive watched hull for many years and i cant recall any local scrum half going on to represent great britain.'"
Apart from Richard Horne you mean
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| Quote: Ian P "Tommy Lee is an example of what is wrong with coaching set up at FC, he had good decision making and they have coached it out of him. The Horne borthers have all suffered from not having a settled position, Yeaman should be a second rower by now. The club has a long history of missing players by trying to make them into something the are not.
Tommy was a gifted ball handler and those of us who have watched his developement at West Hull over the years will be amazed how he has changed. I see him slowing down to think now before he makes pass, the3 coaches and the bo boys hjave done that. I hope he does change clubs and goes on to become the player many of know is in there it just needs a decent patient coach to bring it back out.
Westerman and Welham where both at FC, two examples I can think of where good players have slipped through the net. We keep kidding ourselves that our junior set up is the best, its not its bloody dire at times. We are ruining more then we are producing and we not producing any half backs of note at the moment.'"
Well said Ian. Someting I have alluded to before. The whole system is wrong. The scouting system needs severe sort out. Over the past 25 years how many players have to to Hull's youth set up and how many come from just 3 or 4 clubs in the Hull seen. Namely West Hull, Skirlaugh, East Hull, Iseberg.
How many came from Orchard Park, Beverley, Cottingham etc. There is a pecking order and only if you come from certain clubs do you really get a look in.
Our recruitment from further afield has improved since Agar came on board, Briscoe bros for two.
The whole youth set up for a long time has been geared towards winning. At aged 16 through 21 its not about winning but development. Yes winning league titles is great but its about development and producing the right kind of player with the right tempriment.
We are also reaping the reward of trying to pack a team full of people from Hull. We waxed lyrical a few years ago about the number of Hull lads in the team. Now look where it has got us.
We need to start looking at all players and developing them towards being quality specialists as opposed to average utility players. Could you imagine Saints playing Wellens at half back in the absence of Pryce. No but I bet we would have done that if they both played for us.
Some of all this has to come down to the player himself being dedicated to the cause, but that also comes from the example of senior pros. Thats why J Smith, Swain, Kearney were so influential. The squad of today have Radders, Tickle, Thackray and Berrigan to look to which is hardly orr inspiring. Thats before the world class coaching set up.
In the case of Lee though I have ofetn feared what is in a players mind when he runs onto the field with not a single hair out of place. Hensen in RU is another. But thats just my little bug bear.
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| Quote: BESTY "Apart from Richard Horne you mean
Rich Horne is many things, but a Scrum Half isn't one of them.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "Considering Hull is a "hot bed of rugby league", it has produced very few top class players in the last 25 years. Must be more to do with coaching than a lack of natural talent'"
Name a club that has done better?....
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| Quote: Ian P "Tommy Lee is an example of what is wrong with coaching set up at FC, he had good decision making and they have coached it out of him. The Horne borthers have all suffered from not having a settled position, Yeaman should be a second rower by now. The club has a long history of missing players by trying to make them into something the are not.
Tommy was a gifted ball handler and those of us who have watched his developement at West Hull over the years will be amazed how he has changed. I see him slowing down to think now before he makes pass, the3 coaches and the bo boys hjave done that. I hope he does change clubs and goes on to become the player many of know is in there it just needs a decent patient coach to bring it back out.
Westerman and Welham where both at FC, two examples I can think of where good players have slipped through the net. We keep kidding ourselves that our junior set up is the best, its not its bloody dire at times. We are ruining more then we are producing and we not producing any half backs of note at the moment.'"
Yeaman is not a backrower and I am not sure he ever will be. Every club has had players who have slipped through the net and using Welham as an example is hardly a shocking call, he would not get in my side ahead of Whiting, Hall or Yeaman.
You are right about TL and what has happened to him although he also has to shoulder some blame. When he first came into the side his off field attitude left a lot to be desired and whilst coaches do make a difference to a players development so does the players attitude.
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| Quote: Kosh "Rich Horne is many things, but a Scrum Half isn't one of them.'"
Has he played scrum half for GB?
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| Quote: BESTY "Has he played scrum half for GB?'"
he has also played for GB on the wing, but you wouldn't say that was his best position.
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| Quote: Gordon Gekko "he has also played for GB on the wing, but you wouldn't say that was his best position.'"
That wasn't what he was asking though was it. He said he couldn't remember the last Hull born player to play scrum half for GB.
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| Quote: BESTY "That wasn't what he was asking though was it. He said he couldn't remember the last Hull born player to play scrum half for GB.'"
Define "play", do you mean "get picked in that position, try their hardest and fail because they are not good enough" or "get picked in that position and really make it their own"
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| Quote: Gordon Gekko "he has also played for GB on the wing, but you wouldn't say that was his best position.'"
include f/back in that as well
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| Quote: BESTY "That wasn't what he was asking though was it. He said he couldn't remember the last Hull born player to play scrum half for GB.'"
Maybe thats because he had such a nightmare when he did play there.
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| Quote: Kosh "He also had some experienced ball players to learn from, something Lee hasn't had.'"
15 August 2004 - first team debut.
I think he's had experienced ball players to learn from Kosh.
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| Quote: ditchley16 "talking about not producing half backs at the moment.could anyone tell me when was the last time ,hull or rovers for that matter last produced a top class scrum half of any real note.ive watched hull for many years and i cant recall any local scrum half going on to represent great britain.'"
Could you tell me when GB last produced a top class scrum half.?
I have watched since 76 and can think of Gregory who was truely world class ( even thats at a push), Edwards and .................................... ?
Millward was my time but he was already class in 76.
I am struggling now.
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