Yes, the finances and facilities mean they'll not kick us out in the next 9 years .... there are at least 6 clubs that will go before us and do you really think there are clubs in the lower leagues that can replace us?

I agree we are shoite on the pitch and Agar is clueless but any talk of losing our franchise because of it is utter rubbish.

I agree that we have a very solid franchise. But, if I were at the RFL and put aside the checklists and criteria, what do we actually bring to the competition? From an external perspective we make admin feck-ups that attract adverse media coverage, are generally dour and poor quality when our games are televised and Chav Corner is hardly a draw in the eyes of away supporters. Apart from the ability to boost Super League's average attendance, would the competition be damaged if we were replaced with, say, Widnes? I know it won't happen, but I do think we have an inflated view of our own importance sometimes.

We still bring far more than the majority of the league, yes we are going through a rubbish spell right now but lets not forget we are the only club from outside the "big 4" to ever compete in a Grand Final. Warrington are now at their optimum potential after years of trying and still get less through the gates than us, a club that as clearly under achieved every year since 2006. As for away fans, we could have the most welcoming of grounds and they still would find an excuse not to travel, the chav corner excuse is just that.... an excuse.

We have been aweful in past seasons, some real bad times over the years, but this is different this time round. This time its not lack of money that is forcing down our ability to compete, we should be enjoying a purple patch of success with the all funds, players, fans and the KC stadium instead its pure dross.

WHY IS THAT ?

Mediocrity has become a byword, FC fans seem to be incapable now of telling good rugby league from bad, good players from bad and the truth from spin. Too many FC fans except or have excepted whatever they have been served up in recent years. To speak out against the clubs board has been at times bordering high treason, to even suggest that the club have been using the fans as there own personal bank is not going to far now.

I know we owe some of them for saving the club way back in 2000 that is true, but who exactly got the better deal really. They came to our club with debts from Gateshead of around £600k in one season, ok we had over £1 Million in debt and we where down and out. We would have risen again in time, they would have lost everything on the Gateshead venture. They did turn the club around and they have made a decent living out of it as well and are still doing that, but do they take the urine at times ?

I remember a conversation way back in 2005 about the coach prices to Cardiff, we had gone earlier to Bridgend to play London and EYMS where estimating the costs would be the same. The day trip to Bridgend cost £30 ( the club made a profit on that price) a head and that was going to be the price for Cardiff until a member of the board changed it too £45, "They will pay it for a final ". Hull took over 30 official coaches to Cardiff and at 49 seats worked out at over £22,000+ extra profit for the club on top of the massive amounts they where taking on other things at the time. Thats is indicative of the way things work at FC, profit above everything. Now whilst I agree with the club a profit and run well I being able to run at do feel at times they go for the cheapest option where they are paying, they opt for the dearer options when we are paying. They use many channels to convey the message they wish to project, they have become very good at it and they may yet turn this around. They will try to put some spin on it and I reckon the fans will start getting some stick of players and coaching staff, [i"a section of fans not getting behind the players" [/i

The future should be full of promise, its not because the mistakes that where made years ago are still being made. The last proper paid up coach we had was Bomber and when he left so did the boards thinking on hiring a coach on the salary he should get. That was Johns problem doing a full coaches job on an assistants salary and so it goes on and until some one stops the bloody roundabout it will continue. The board seem to think bringing in a top player shoul bring success, the coach is not a vital cog in the scheme of things. Perhaps its better as well if you do as your told too, again one or two of our ex coaches had a tendancy to rebel now and again.

Bomber and the case of the missing Ali Lauitiiti

As long as the club are making money then nothing will change, if it does not then there could be some massive changes and maybe some very painful ones for all of us.

We've already lost a point for failing to make the top 8 two seasons in a row. If we carry on being crap long enough then crowds will fall, impacting on finances. More points lost. We can't control what happens with other clubs so can't rely on them continuing to be a worse prospect than us.

We're in no immediate danger, but if we continue to fail on the pitch then we could be at risk eventually.

Think the answer is obvious,play all of our games in thick fog.There are two advantages to this.We can bamboozle a class side,AND we don`t have to endure watching the buggers play.

For me the difference between worse times and now is that the club was in dire straights and had to sell our best players to survive or we didnt have a good team because we couldnt afford one, now is not the excuse. The dire days of 3500 fans for a home game towards the end of a really bad era for us seems a far distant planet away but still it feels worse now than then.

Why?...because we CAN do something about it now but choose not too, before we didnt have a choice.

I was talking to a few kr friends yesterday and they are 100% adamant that their team is just not playing for Morgan and I thought well Fc don't look that much different. We have some players just going through the motions or looking like they are and why?

What Saints do is not down to Potter, although he is an important part of it. The club ethos and culture demands success and entertaining rugby and they resource and prioritise appropriately, over-investing, if you like, in the top dozen or so players but having the confidence in the youngsters their excellent academy churns out and expecting to blood them early. And as you say they recognise that a top coach is non-negotiable if you want to challenge for honours. The whole mindset of the club from top to bottom is that they expect to win things.

Nail on the head.

For whatever reason we just don't have this mentality at FC, which is one reason why successive coaches have failed IMO.

A hull in general thing?

The hull born players don't seem to have the confidence or the champion mentality.

I think we have been guilty of overrating a lot of our youngsters in the last few years. We seem to want to talk them up to being better than they really are. When you get someone like Tomkins or Eastmond who have real pace, talent and a cocky confidence to go with it that is OK, but just because a young player does well in the local junior leagues doesn't mean they are world beaters. Having the right professional environment and coach will help to finish these top youngsters into being top pros, but at the end of the day if a young player hasn't got the raw talent, the size and/or speed, and the will to convert himself into the finished product he wont make it. Many of our so called young prospects have been built up as having more talent than they really have. That has been their biggest downfall.

nothing will change whilst the likes of me and you carry on paying good money to support the club

on the other hand if large amounts of people stop going revenue falls so then we cannot pay for good players/coach

we are in deep pooh no matter what we do

the board will not walk away from the cash cow which is FC fans so we can look forwards to this every year

Its not surprising with the crap thats on the pitch.

The last really top class coach we had was Smith. For those of you who argue that its not a coach who knocks on, misses tackles etc etc look back at what we had with Smith. We had a squad made up of also rans and never will bees. He managed through management and commitment to turn the club around and make ordinary players into international players and poor players perform above themselves. He gave the club direction and created a real buzz that produced the goods.

Ok some of you argue that he bankrupted the club. I don't buy into that. What I did see ( I was very close to the club at the time) was a playing rosta which all worked to the required standards set by the coach. Youngsters could step upto the plate and fit into a system that was working throughout the club.

Paul Eastwood was never a international standard player and never wood have been if it wasn't for the belief installed in him by Smith. Harrison and Jackson, Dannatt the list is endless.

Our youngsters of the 21st century probably under the correct guidance could be the same. But when we look at the coaching staff I do not see one person who a 15 year old would look to and respect. Yes there has to be a certain amount of personal desire, but who is working with these players on a one on one basis. Putting them right, encouraging them when things don't go the right way. Bulling them up when its required and equally giving them a dose of reality. Even the timing of a players appearence in the first team can make or break them. Who out of the 14000 Hull fans who regularly watch would have thrown Reece into the team this year? I suspect only Agar. How much damage has been done to Reece's confidence by that one match? I hope none but that is the gamble that is being played out week by week and season by season by our coaching set up at the moment.

We need a top class man with fantastic man management skills and a proven track record to come in and shake the whole system up. We are currently sleep walking towards a day when Andy Last will be first team coach and his mentors will have been Agar ,Crooks, Sharp and Kear. Yet when you look back at Smith he started at Hull and went onto massive things and has a whole host of players and coaches who have looked to him for inspiration.

We were a small player in 1989 to 1993 ish and we attracted Smith. We are now a big player ( I am speaking in terms of stadium, crowds, turn over and even final appearences ) so must be able to attact the next Smith or even better the current Smith whoever he may be. Even if he comes in above Agar to give him guidance like Wire have done with Smith and Lowes. It could easily be a case of paying of Last, Crooks, Harman and recruiting big with Long, Whiting, Horne, Fitzgibbon and Radders taking charge of the academy etc.