Well it is for a kicker.

You joking ?...defence is not our issue very rarely has been with the likes of Fitz & Orgre...offence has been an issue for us though, so on that basis yes a player like Chase would likely be accommodated and welcomed!
Horney offers neither defence or offence !

Don't understand your reasoning that his stats look better because he's being asked to do more, evidently he has been capable of what he has been asked to do and is doing it relatively succesfully.

rlDefensive stats, not too bad.rl

Personally I don't like to get too bogged down in stats, I commented because I found those posted interesting. Bottom line is whether or not he performs in such a way that makes the team work better, and I'd still like to see him with a regular, good quality organising halfback partner to see if he still has what it takes for that. It's difficult to measure the true capabilities of many of our players thanks to the complete numpty who doesn't bother playing to any of their strengths. Berrigan is a prime example.

exactly! the point i made earlier about horne (snd westerman) when we played catalan, the dragons wingers also dropped back to support greenshields making the kicks easier to return, most teams do this but most are to blind to see

Do you honestly think a coach of a top team would accept defence like that from Chase?

Oh, and saying Horne offers neither is silly, and just smacks of sensationalist posting or a lack of knowledge of the game. You claim you have the latter so...

On that I will agree 100%, I hope things do improve next year no matter who is playing in the h/backs, I fear unless the coach is replaced it would not matter though tbh!
I agree stats only tell half a story and can be manipulated to suit most arguments. My point is he is basically being asked to kick and lead the team around the park the job of a 7 and not a 6 as what he is being compared against, his will be doing less next year which I suspect may make his stats less flattering any way.

Chase would walk into any SL team, yes a coach would accept it and obviously try to improve it.

Compare his try's and try assists he does not offer what Chase does, harsh I admit saying he offers nothing in offence on reflection I should say he does not offer enough. Who would sooner have Chase or Horne ?

The problem is how many of Chase's missed tackles or penalties conceeded led to points? Maybe Chase's defence would be better if he had better defenders around him? Who knows?
I'd take the 2006 Horne over Chase.

So would I but it is now 2011

As many have said, Horne's decline started with the loss of Cooke, but he did look better subsequently when playing with Head, and on the rare occasions with Dykes. Then Agar got the big job and he's struggled again since, in no small part because of the lack of dummy runners and options.



I don't see how being asked to lead the team around the pitch artificially 'inflates' his stats. The fact that he is being asked to be the main playmaker effectively puts a large target on his head for the defence, and with our lack of options a lot of the time it is easier for them to shut him down. Who's to say that having that responsibility lifted wouldn't see him working a bit wider in more space, and actually increase his assists and tries, or even the very presence of another playmaker in the side causing the necessary uncertainty in the opposition's defensive line for Horne to exploit?

You keep saying his dummy is much easier to read than it used to be. That's probably because the opposition's defence can see that there is no viable option for him to pass to, so can see the dummy coming. If he had better runners more often it would probably be bought more often as a result.

If Horney is not kicking & organising what do you think he offers the team ? genuine question.

For me he is slower, his step predictable and he gets batted off a lot more, so I am not sure what he will now add, I genuinely hope I am proved wrong however I doubt very much we will ever see the 2006 Horney and there is no evidence to suggest we will