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| Quote: Staffs FC "Agree with that. The end result in any case is a poorer SL competition in the medium term at least, and a resulting drop in sponsorship and TV money. It then becomes a downward spiral. The RFL should be putting steps in place to ensure that SL clubs can still attract the best worldwide talent to enrich the competition by widening the salary cap and reintroducing limits based upon turnover, whilst giving financial incentive to clubs to promote youngsters from within. It should also invest far more of its profits into young player development through the clubs.'"
I don't agree with increasing the salary cap. It's already more than most clubs can afford. If the sport can't generate enough income to compete with aussie wages then we need to focus on improving British players. RL players are paid well enough compared to most other sports to make it attractive enough but clubs need to start spending a reasonable amount on youth development instead of doing it on the cheap
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "I don't agree with increasing the salary cap. It's already more than most clubs can afford. If the sport can't generate enough income to compete with aussie wages then we need to focus on improving British players. RL players are paid well enough compared to most other sports to make it attractive enough but clubs need to start spending a reasonable amount on youth development instead of doing it on the cheap'"
Which is why there should be incentives to promote youth as I said. That can't be done alone though as the best players, including the top British youth that comes through, will just play in the NRL if our top clubs can't compete with the wages over there. There has to be a plan at both ends of the spectrum otherwise SL will become a junior feeder comp with the best handful of juniors going to Aus and staying there. SKY, sponsors, and fans want to see the best players playing in SL so there has to be a mix. The idea that SL can fill itself with British youngsters and flourish is equally as wrong as the idea that swamping teams with second rate overseas players is wrong. A mixture of incentives at both ends of the spectrum are needed. It's hardly as if the current salary cap rules have ensured parity of competition and removed the danger of financial default after all.
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| Quote: Staffs FC "Which is why there should be incentives to promote youth as I said. That can't be done alone though as the best players, including the top British youth that comes through, will just play in the NRL if our top clubs can't compete with the wages over there. There has to be a plan at both ends of the spectrum otherwise SL will become a junior feeder comp with the best handful of juniors going to Aus and staying there. SKY, sponsors, and fans want to see the best players playing in SL so there has to be a mix. The idea that SL can fill itself with British youngsters and flourish is equally as wrong as the idea that swamping teams with second rate overseas players is wrong. A mixture of incentives at both ends of the spectrum are needed. It's hardly as if the current salary cap rules have ensured parity of competition and removed the danger of financial default after all.'"
The issue is that most clubs can't even afford the current salary cap so what's the point increasing it? All that will happen is that clubs will overspend even more and some will go to the wall. With aussie incomes for the top players expected to be North of £1/2m a year we can never comepete anyway. The best players will always be attracted to where salaries are highest. It happens in every sport
The real issue is that we're not producing enough good quality youngsters and the issue isn't that there aren't enough kids with the talent around. Player production should be part of the franchise requirement IMO and clubs that don't do it should be penalised
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "The issue is that most clubs can't even afford the current salary cap so what's the point increasing it? All that will happen is that clubs will overspend even more and some will go to the wall. With aussie incomes for the top players expected to be North of £1/2m a year we can never comepete anyway. The best players will always be attracted to where salaries are highest. It happens in every sport
The real issue is that we're not producing enough good quality youngsters and the issue isn't that there aren't enough kids with the talent around. Player production should be part of the franchise requirement IMO and clubs that don't do it should be penalised'"
Successful "player production" should be rewarded with salary cap incentives. Clubs are going to the wall now at the current cap level as you say. Do you think the cap should be reduced as a result of this ? If so how attractive do you think the competition would become to the main sources of income it has - TV and sponsorship - if it became effectively a junior league with no stars playing in it ? More clubs might be more solvent but there might not be a league to play in.
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| Quote: Staffs FC "Successful "player production" should be rewarded with salary cap incentives. Clubs are going to the wall now at the current cap level as you say. Do you think the cap should be reduced as a result of this ? If so how attractive do you think the competition would become to the main sources of income it has - TV and sponsorship - if it became effectively a junior league with no stars playing in it ? More clubs might be more solvent but there might not be a league to play in.'"
There is already a self imposed reduction in salary cap spend from at least 1/2 the clubs in the competition. Fact is that all but a handful of players will never go to Oz so the competition won't be diminished. Sponsors and TV are interested in spectator numbers and viewers. Do you really believe that losing a few players to oz will affect this? How many top players have come over here from oz in their prime since SL started?
Is your answer for the competition to spend it's way to success? All that will happen is that the same players will earn more money. It won't make them better and the real superstars of the game will all be playing down under anyway. The RFU salary cap is significantly ahead of ours and we haven't seen the predicted drain on players from union.
The fact is taht RL players in SL are, on the whole, well paid and few of them would earn what they do from the game elewhere
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| They could have something like, no federation trained player 21/22 years and under, to count on the cap.
A club can claim a ‘set or limited’ compensation fee for the first time sale of a player, whatever age they are when sold. The fee to compensate the cost of development, not the value of player.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "There is already a self imposed reduction in salary cap spend from at least 1/2 the clubs in the competition. Fact is that all but a handful of players will never go to Oz so the competition won't be diminished. Sponsors and TV are interested in spectator numbers and viewers. Do you really believe that losing a few players to oz will affect this? How many top players have come over here from oz in their prime since SL started?
Is your answer for the competition to spend it's way to success? All that will happen is that the same players will earn more money. It won't make them better and the real superstars of the game will all be playing down under anyway. The RFU salary cap is significantly ahead of ours and we haven't seen the predicted drain on players from union.
The fact is taht RL players in SL are, on the whole, well paid and few of them would earn what they do from the game elewhere'"
If our competition falls (further) behind in salary terms it will mean that all these top young players that will take the place of overseas stars will go where the money is.. They will go to RU or NRL. There have been a few go over of late to both - some of the better youngsters of course - and this number would increase if they can't earn comparable wages in league. The reason there haven't been all that many go up to now is the precise reason for the debate - there isn't that much quality around. What I'm saying is this - if by some miracle more talent starts coming through there has to be a league worth playing in with salaries that prevent players leaving otherwise what's the point ?
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| Quote: Isaiah "They could have something like, no federation trained player 21/22 years and under, to count on the cap.
A club can claim a ‘set or limited’ compensation fee for the first time sale of a player, whatever age they are when sold. The fee to compensate the cost of development, not the value of player.'"
Ideas along these lines will help if they don't run into legal difficulties along the way. The game needs world stars as well as youngsters. There must be ways to keep the mix at the right balance and much of that will be down to how much players can be paid.
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| Quote: Staffs FC "If our competition falls (further) behind in salary terms it will mean that all these top young players that will take the place of overseas stars will go where the money is.. They will go to RU or NRL. There have been a few go over of late to both - some of the better youngsters of course - and this number would increase if they can't earn comparable wages in league. The reason there haven't been all that many go up to now is the precise reason for the debate - there isn't that much quality around. What I'm saying is this - if by some miracle more talent starts coming through there has to be a league worth playing in with salaries that prevent players leaving otherwise what's the point ?'"
And there have to be clubs in existence or the game will whither and die. Maintaining the number of clubs and paying a reasonable level of income is far more improtant than worrying about losing a few of the absolute best players or not bringing over players who would never come here anyway.
Increasing the salary cap will only encourage club owners to overspend. It won't improve the competition at all
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "And there have to be clubs in existence or the game will whither and die. Maintaining the number of clubs and paying a reasonable level of income is far more improtant than worrying about losing a few of the absolute best players or not bringing over players who would never come here anyway.
Increasing the salary cap will only encourage club owners to overspend. It won't improve the competition at all'"
As I asked earlier should the salary cap now be reduced then ? Just because some clubs are poorly run and loss making shouldn't mean that those that are run well have to struggle to attract and retain the best players (young or overseas) for their customers/sponsors/revenue providers to watch. Incentives for nurturing young talent in terms of salary cap enhancements is the way forward otherwise it will be pointless nurturing anything.
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| Quote: Staffs FC "As I asked earlier should the salary cap now be reduced then ? Just because some clubs are poorly run and loss making shouldn't mean that those that are run well have to struggle to attract and retain the best players (young or overseas) for their customers/sponsors/revenue providers to watch. Incentives for nurturing young talent in terms of salary cap enhancements is the way forward otherwise it will be pointless nurturing anything.'"
I said that there is a self imposed reduction in spend by some teams so, no, I don't think it needs to be reduced.
How much do you think it should be increased by and what do you think would be the benefit? Maybe you could tell me which top class aussies would come over or how many world class players England would likely produce in the next 10 years as a result? Or which of our better players would rather stay in the North of England than live in Sydney given the choice?
Do you think sponsorship and TV revenue would increase if we had 2 or 3 rich clubs dominating the competition and hammering other teams most weeks?
The only benefit I could see is that rovers may go pop but it seems even they've seen the light and are reducing their spend on players
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| i dont see the massive issue with people thinking all our best player will go over there, the aussies pride themselves on bringing through there own young players and the depth they have is huge, also english players may not want to go over yeh its an attactive place to go and play rugby but alot of players have familes ect and may not want to go over anyway many players like long and cunningham had offers to go over but dint want to.
there should be a incentive to bring through player even if its say 5% of a club trained player dosent count on the cap or something along those lines but for me anyway i think the rfl should make it 6 non british born players you are allowed then over 6 years bring that down to 3 or 4
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| There is an incentive to bring through club-trained players... the 8 club-trained player rule, which is actually pretty massive. The only way you can have any sort of depth to your squad is if you produce players.
I'm not aware of any other sport doing anything on this scale.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "There is already a self imposed reduction in salary cap spend from at least 1/2 the clubs in the competition. Fact is that all but a handful of players will never go to Oz so the competition won't be diminished. Sponsors and TV are interested in spectator numbers and viewers. Do you really believe that losing a few players to oz will affect this? How many top players have come over here from oz in their prime since SL started?
Is your answer for the competition to spend it's way to success? All that will happen is that the same players will earn more money. It won't make them better and the real superstars of the game will all be playing down under anyway. The RFU salary cap is significantly ahead of ours and we haven't seen the predicted drain on players from union.
The fact is taht RL players in SL are, on the whole, well paid and few of them would earn what they do from the game elewhere'"
That actually suggests evidence against your argument of a cap increase meaning more clubs going under. If they're being smart enough now I don't see why they wouldn't continue to be so. What would more likely happen is that the gap between the clubs spending the cap and those not would widen, that's all.
I do think we need to look at a cap increase and some sort of incentive for promoting youth. As said, SL needs some star imports, it's starting to suffer from the decrease of them IMO, so we need to do what we can to bring them back. The RFL just need to be more inventive with possible ways to apply the cap to try and prevent dominance of a few emerging, such as a percentage of club produced youngsters not counting on the cap, or a marquee player system.
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| Quote: carl_spackler "That actually suggests evidence against your argument of a cap increase meaning more clubs going under. If they're being smart enough now I don't see why they wouldn't continue to be so. What would more likely happen is that the gap between the clubs spending the cap and those not would widen, that's all.
I do think we need to look at a cap increase and some sort of incentive for promoting youth. As said, SL needs some star imports, it's starting to suffer from the decrease of them IMO, so we need to do what we can to bring them back. The RFL just need to be more inventive with possible ways to apply the cap to try and prevent dominance of a few emerging, such as a percentage of club produced youngsters not counting on the cap, or a marquee player system.'"
Not every club is spending to the cap but if the cap increases then there will be pressure on all clubs to spend more because salaries on offer from some clubs will be higher, increasing the expectations of everyone else. It's exactly what happened when SKY pumped a stack of cash in. The players now are no more skillful than they were pre SL. They're fitter and stronger as a result of full time training but we are probably producing less world class players in this country now than we were 20 years ago.
SL has had hardly any "star" players from australia since it started, but has had plenty of journeymen from other countries earning significant amounts of money that would be better spent developing British talent.
The game in australia is a completely different kettle of fish to here and trying to compete financially with the NRL will lead to financial ruin for many clubs.
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