And come season end when we are 250 points off the team a place or 2 above us, 10 points a game, or 2 tries, is that cos we never gelled?

think its easy 2 see improvements! can see the difference in the attacking structure even if the cutting edge and final pass isnt quite there yet. But to be fair the weather barring salford has been dire for each game! compared to last yr or the last few id say 0 points from wire game-defence wouldnt have been up 2 it-dont think we'd have held on after the send off against london-salford was a let down this year but we not been good there for a while so who knows-and think we'd have lost yesterday in recent yrs,think we'd have crumbled! Be a good marker on friday!

Think we have to accept we haven't got the quality to challenge this season , we need a centre , a stand off and a couple of props to challenge the top 4 . Its a shame but think people have to be realistic and hope measures are being put in place for next season already.

It depends what you mean by challenge.

Are we as good as Wigan or Warrington, no. But I havnt seen much so far to suggest we are a long way off from Leeds, St Helens, Huddersfield and Catalans. We probably wont make 4th but I dont think it is an unreasonable target.

This new journey is in its very early stages. I can see improvements already and I'm sure we will only get better.

I'm well known for it

Peter Gentle and his coaching team know what needs to be done, and I believe they will get it right.

But it will not be overnight or after 4 games.

I'm sure we will start to see improvements in our attack as the season progresses.

Then next season he will have the opportunity to bring in some new players to improve the area's he believes need improving. Then we may start flying.

It takes time to build a top team. I'm willing to be patient and I hope my fellow fans will too.

5 points of of 8 is just about where I expected us to be before the season started. I expected a defeat to Wire at home, but us to beat Salford away.

If we had played like we have on firm pitches in decent weather, I would probably be a bit more critical and asking a few more questions, but you simply can't play attacking rugby successfully in the snow/sleet and our attacking play has been more conservative as a result.

As I have said in another thread, Saints on Friday gives us a better indication of where we are. I don't expect a win (our record there is shocking) but if we run them close I'd be confident that we can beat some of the big teams at home and get a top6 spot.

For me, it was always a risk appointing gentle and I'd have preferred an experienced coach myself, however we have certainly made some improvements so the early signs are positive, if not exactly good yet.

Only concern I currently have is that in each of the 4 games we've been in a winning position late in the game but have won only 2. Against wire we made a mistake and conceded at the end and were lucky to come away with a point in the end, against london we were totally in control and let them score 2 tries, against salford we were winning by 6 in the last 10 minutes only to lose by 2 and against wakey we were holding on at the end.

To me this smacks of either a lack of fitness/fatigue or a lack of concentration. I do wonder about the lack of back row rotation and the effect it has in the last 10-15 minutes and also houghton's ineffectiveness late on.

We also continue to lack a leader on the pitch for me. Yesterday just needed someone to calm everyone down and re-organise when wakey scored their 1st try.

Having said all that, I doubt that gentle actually has the quality of player that he needs in order to really achieve success with the system he is trying to play so we need to be patient and see how things progress.

I'm sure pearson will have a degree of patience but won't be happy to see us struggle this year

We weren't "very poor" against London Broncos.

As for Salford, yes a disappointing result but remember last season they beat Warrington and Catalans away. Sometimes results go against the form book.

Only four games gone. Lets judge the squad and Gentle at round ten.

On the contrary, we was poor against London then became very poor once Moa went off.

Our pack has been very good so far and been getting us into the position to put some points on the board but there is still some cohesion missing with the ball and when we spread the ball its very slow and simply catch and pass, no standing up defenders by somebody playing straight.

I must be on happy pills,I feel a lot better this season already.Things will improve,of that I feel certain.
Anything is better than what we have been putting up with.