Sorry was the penalty not straight after the Westerman ball loss ? I thought Whiting faded badly and was very static defensively for most of the second half.

No, it was the second tackle after the kick off from Chase's try. Westerman's brain fart was before the Chase try.

All fans have bias, the only way to be neutral is if you don't care. I believe that what I said in the past was that you appear to have a slight bias against Westerman and for Whiting.

I would just point out that this discussion started because I commented on Whiting not playing well and your immediate response was to point out Westerman's error.

Fair enough my bad. Poor penalty and he looked shot to me so should have been replaced. I'm just annoyed because structurally we look half decent but mentally I thought there were some corners cut all the way through the game in both attack and defence and in the end it bit us hard. We've not made that step yet that eradicates that 95% of the time. In fact we've done it in 3 of our last 4 games.

That was because Westerman's error was in my view the turning point whereas you had previously suggested in your opinion that it was down to Whiting so I simply answered that point directly. As I've posted elsewhere several times there were many players at fault during the game.

And I would add that i believe you are clearly biased in favour of Westerman over Whiting

I still think it just boils down to the fact that we don't open defences often enough. I thought our plays in their 40 in the first half were poor and we should have posted more points. When we don't convert our chances, we then seem to have a mentality where we try to score off every play instead of being patient, which just makes it worse. Then we find ourselves chasing the game and it's just a vicious circle. It's like when it was 24 apiece and we gave away the Clare try. If we'd had the lead either through any one of the bombed chances or just one of the missed goalkicks I don't think we chase that bomb so recklessly and he probably doesn't score. If we just get that little bit more clinical game to game I think we'll see far less nerves/panic rugby.

I didn't think Holdsworth did a very good job of organising us or calming us down tonight TBH.

Agreed particularly in the first half where we had ball and field position. Hard to legislate for Crookes just chucking the ball in field to them or Watts failing to catch a simple ball mind. Crooks as well after the Cas mistake second half failing to execute a simple catch. We're not polished enough yet but our defence, formerly half decent, is going backwards literally and metaphorically and at this stage of the year that's a big worry.

TBF if Lineham wasnt having treatment for cramp on the other side of the pitch I dont think they score that try. Seriously what is it with Lineham getting cramp in virtually every single game?

We've started getting dominated in the middle, that's the problem with our defence IMO. I don't think O'Meley and Green are playing for long enough, and it's having a detrimental effect on Lynch and Watts. The latter 2 don't seem anywhere near as aggressive as the former 2 either. I personally think that after a brief month and a half-ish of upturn, Lynch is wobbling a bit again recently (especially in attack), and he's being asked to play too long, and I think Watts has lost too much weight, he seems to be built like a backrower now. That terrible spell was when Lynch and Watts had been going about 30-40 minutes, I don't think that was coincidence.

I'd change the pairings, personally. Start with Watts and O'Meley and have Lynch play with Green from the bench.

What a funny thread.
Has there been a more divisive player than westy? or a more protected player than whiting?
Also seems a constant thing that when yeaman doesn't play we don't seem as solid or sure of our selves defensively.
Also, while not knocking him in generally, I actually like him, crookes was poor tonight, but even at his best he can't truly replace Briscoe, n over a fair few yrs now Briscoe has seldom had as poor a game. Think people have been premature in writing Briscoe off n thinking he won't be missed.

I agree totally - I thought Lynch did well early in the game with and without the ball but faded which backs your theory. I think Watts needs to up his concentration a bit again doing well early but getting lazy in defence. Maybe Ogre is getting on now and needs the shorter time but Green certainly should be on longer. Ellis was a miss in defence tonight although he's wider out.

I was more meaning that if we had been in front I don't think we'd have contested the ball, we'd have just waited and made the tackle. Just that lack of scoring is affecting the way we play the game as we are chasing points when we should be more in control.

I've called for Crookes to be given time and stick by it. However he was poor and running the ball out fairly strongly isn't the only thing he needs to do. Didn't even get off the ground for their first try and his handling appears suspect. Have to say I didn't think Arundel did much wrong tonight I don't think they ran past him ? Could be wrong.