This is it, like I said Satae and Sao played big minutes and a big part of their positive attributes where they both played big minutes.

You've got to ask why we've turned Satae into a ten minute stint prop when he can play much longer. Head scratching time

Feel for Wynne but always said Fonua was a mistake, probably on big money as well

Having thought about this weeks game, I think ultimately, a change in the coaching and ethos of the club needs to be the primary solution.

People have mentioned above that we had players missing from the pack so hard for the halves to play behind a beaten pack. They seem to forget that Wigan only had 2 props themselves in the side as they had 4/5 out injured - so there is no way Havard and Partington should out muscle collectively Fash, Masi, Satae, Sao, Brown when we had chance to rotate the props. We should have started with Satae and Sao - nullify their props in the first 20 minutes, keep running at them, get them making tackle after tackle, as when they go off, you have makeshift props who wouldn't match up physically.

It was also mentioned above that without Shaul, Kelly and Ratu we had nobody that could do something out of nothing! Well that there is the main problem! We have no structure with the ball, so that we don't have to rely on X factor plays, because you can't have them every week. Whether this comes from the halves that we have - Connor and Sneyd don't want to run with the ball, so we cannot commit defenders - or whether that is how we are told to play, I don't know. When Saints have players missing, they bring in players who just slot straight in to their way of playing, and you don't really notice a difference. With us, we just admit that we don't have Kelly, Ratu, so we don't expect to score.

We have come from a side in 2016 who didn't look like they could ever get beat, to a side in 2020 who struggle to even score, let alone be able to defend our line. I know Wigan play close to the edge, but they are damn good to watch. Creativity, aggression, speed - how I would like us to play.

For the reasons above I'd love us to get Wane, he built this legacy.

Sadly I fully agree.

Don't forget we are losing Kelly & Ratu, many on here thought we should leave them out for the rest of this season !!

Shaul has more critics than fans on here too, sick of hearing the 'Wynne offers much more' rant on here. As it stands Jamie is the only player with pace on the books for next season, Carlos will probably be the next best. Mot counting Swift as frankly he isn't SL standard as a firstr choice.

Shame Shaul just isnt good enough.

Your opinion perhaps, but not that of people with genuine knowledge of the game.

Shaul's record of 98 try's in 177 games is one off the best in the modern era by any Hull FC player, yes his link up play isn't the best, but he's good under the ball and his defence is good but what do people want on here, maybe if our halves where better Shaul wouldn't get all the blame, Wynne a decent stand in but nowhere near good enough to take Shaul's place. IMO

Can't argue with any of that and I think despite all the problems Andy Last has faced in one hell of a baptism of fire is the club and team need a totally different and fresh approach and ethos. What is clear and has been for far too long is that without systems in place first and foremost we will never be a serious contender. We have and still rely the vast majority of the time on the individual talents of players rather than relying on a structured plan of play with the individuals to enhance that rather than the players being the be all and end all.
There is the talent within the club but the lack of any real structure is and has been the main downfall, as take one or two players out and we crumble and look a clueless team. We expect and rely on some maverick play by Kelly or Connor, and in faorness to Connor whilst he's not shown a lot he is undoubtedly a very talented player but we just fail to get the best out of his talents s we do most of the players.
I think Andy Last made a huge mistake starting with the Fash & Matongo against a Wigan side that were on paper weaker in that area than we were. We should have put Satae and Sao on from the start the get on the front foot and bullied the young Wigan forwards. Then brought Fash, Brown & Matongo on with Houghton to stifle Wigan.
We just made the game far too easy and comfortable for Wigan with the tactics and errors.How many times in that game did we see Satae, Sao and even Mau make breaks and look round to make the off load to find there were no players in support whch is another issue we've had since the days of Agar.
No support play no dummy or angled runners, very poor last play options and very little aggression or desire to get up in the opponents faces and meet them instead preferring to stand and wait, which all in all leaves us in a mess.

Its a tough place to be for AP now as I think he will probably know this himself but whether he can afford to make the necessary change/appointment only he knows or if he feels he can take the risk given the current situation faced by sporting clubs. As next years sponsorship may well be harder to come by and walk ups and even pass holders may well find the cost is not something they can afford or with the length of time not being able to get to a game they may even decide to give it a miss due to the lack of competitiveness shown with the hammerings witnessed.

AP has delivered one of the best squads we have had in SL era and sadly it is failing dismally.