Indeed, and it is the majority view.

I posted this on my Fb yesterday , be interested to know what others think As District Attorney, he suppressed abolitionists and did not support an immediate end to slavery.[9][10] He was also a leader of the American Colonization Society which sent freed slaves to Africa.[11][12] He freed some of his slaves in the 1830s, paying one ex-slave as his farm foreman. He publicly criticized slavery and gave free legal representation to some slaves seeking freedom, but he also represented owners of runaway slaves.
end Wiki entry :

The third verse makes comments to those 'Colonial Marines' (black men fighting for the British in return for their freedom) and how the last ship they would sail would be to a watery grave.

Will Americans stop singing it when they, hypocritically, take a knee?

If they are so het up by oppression and inequality, will Cheerleaders be gone from NFL games, or is moral indignation reserved for the actions of white men against black men. Will rap music be banned (basically glorification of drugs, gangs, guns and violence), I very much doubt it.

Can you see the Aussies kneeling when Advance Australia fair is played ("we are young and free", hmmm, tell that to the Aboriginals that have inhabited Australia for 60,000 years and are still persecuted and prosecuted and were subjugated with alcohol and gambling)

People talk of banning "Swing low, sweet chariot", what next, ban "Land of Hope & Glory", "Rule Britannia", "Jerusalem", all are Nationalistic and Imperialistic. Don't even start on "God Save the Queen"

Basically, where does it stop?

Our history isn't always something we should be proud of, but nor should we selectively decide which bits to keep and which to discard because it is socially awkward to even speak of it...

Racism is awful, as is all oppression, but the situation is improving each decade, people have shown their feelings with protests, an incident of racial or oppressive nature triggers these kind of protests on a roughly 10 year cycle, and it always will, there will always be the oppressor and the oppressed, it is nature, and not just human nature.

Conflating racism, subjugation,opression, inequality and intolerance into one cause under a three word banner ,as is the trend, lessens the importance of each in their own right.

There were elements of the post I’m excerpting from that I agree with, but I like to argue, so...



That certainly exists, but c’mon. A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and I’m sure plenty of others who, if we had any users who had taken on any popular culture references since the mid-90s, those users could tell us about.



It is true (well, until those benevolent AIs that I mentioned a while back come along). But just because it is true, it doesn’t make it right. And if oppression is inevitable, isn’t resistance to it not only also inevitable but more legitimate?



It’s an interesting point, but if a problem is seen as being systemic then it possibly begs a holistic approach to solve. There’s lot of stuff over here in liberalsnowflakeland about how these things intersect - if you’re black and a woman, for example.

But, back on topic, I suspect now (or soon) the pubs and cinemas will be open that the protests will fall away like they always do, the BLM point has been made, any action or inaction that comes out of it will be far outweighed by the damage those on both sides have done by hijacking a legitimate cause for more inflammatory actions. (we should probably take this to The Sin Bin M.R, way off the original intend3d topic now I suspect)

it should not be ,black lives matter or white lives matter,it should be ALL LIVES MATTER>

The last is the clear implication of the first.

There was a guy talking about this yesterday on the BBC. I acknowledge limitations in a comparison between a campaign slogan and the names of charitable organisations; however, not many see Save the Children or Help the Aged as implying that other age groups are unimportant.

"prejudice is wrong"
"inequality and discrimination is wrong"

as you say, every individual matters, every group matters (even if we disagree with what they stand for), an opinion being abhorrent doesn't make it invalid.
It is rarely the message that is at fault on it's own, it's usually how that message is conveyed.

Some very good points being made by all.
I tend to like to see facts that back up the words being spoken.

Given that the latest 'troubles' were a reaction to the murder of George Floyd by a Police Officer, and the claims of Black people being disproportionately killed around the world by the Police, then it seems reasonable that there would be some actual evidence out there to support it.

There isn't, and unfortunately for those who seek to promote the argument, then what statistics there are, tend to destroy the argument.

A couple of quick ones, found with very little effort.

A Police Officer in the USA is 18 times more likely to be shot and killed by a Black person, than an unarmed Black person is, to be shot and killed by Police.

In the UK it is claimed that Black people are disproportionately (3 times) more likely to die in custody than a White person.

The population of the UK is approx. 3% Black, yet the Criminal Justice statistics show that 10% of those convicted of crime are Black.

In London, in 48% of murders, the suspects are Black. For the rest of the UK, in 13% of the murders the suspects are Black.

This would tend to suggest that Black are disproportionately more likely to enter into custody.

Now, I'm sure that there are many socio-economic factors that affect those figures, in exactly the same way as there are other factors involved when someone dies in Police custody.
If those who seek to vilify the Police use facts, then, surely fire, should be used to fight fire.

I apologise in advance, to anyone I may have offended by using facts.

I absolutely agree with the message that racism is bad. I just don't see that BLM is the answer.

As you rightly say, as soon as you throw facts into the argument, it simply dispels the myth that black people are on the whole, unfairly targeted.

In the US for example, on the latest figures I can find (FBI website), the black population of the US accounts for 13% of the total population, yet commits 58% of the homicide. If you figure in that the black population is almost a 50/50 split between male and female, and that males are far more likely to commit violent crime, that means that 6.5% of the US population commit 58% of the murder. Thats not a racial issue, its a cultural issue!

In the US 50% of black males don't complete high school - cultural issue and a lack of quality schools

In the US 70% of black households are single parent. As a kicker, you are 13 x (Thirteen) more likely to serve time in prison if you come from a single parent household. That's a cultural issue which in fairness was brought around by an old democrat policy that made it financially beneficial to live in a single parent household.

As you alluded to, there are socioeconomic issues that the black community both in the US and the UK have that need to be dealt with, and I have no doubts at all that there are people who have to deal with racism on a daily basis. What I cannot concede however, is that the racism is either systemic or institutional. What institution is actively trying to stop black people from reaching their potential? Considering that you are more than 3 x as likely to die by the hands of the police as an unarmed white man than as an unarmed black man, it cant be the police. There will be racist officers, but to label the whole institution as racist is just lunacy. Its like calling all men rapists or all women child killers.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, we need to look at everything on an individual basis. The officer who killed George Floyd is rightfully going to answer for his crime, but he is certainly not indicative of a systemic issue. Where was the outcry about the black private security officers who were killed during the subsequent rioting? It seem's that black lives only matter when you can throw some kind of oppression into the mix, which is also bull!

Absolutely.

I think a lot of you are missing the point entirely, and that is partly down to the fact that this is primarily an American issue, which isnt to say we don't have some of the same problems here

The current state in the US is that the system has been actively designed to incarcerate Black men at greater rates then whites, slavery might have ended but the state just found other ways of keeping them down. A large proportion of the country werent happy with Black equality and so found other means of keeping them off the streets. The easiest example of this is when crack cocaine had 6 times the prison sentence of powdered cocaine - despite it being the same substance.

All lives do matter, but you dont tell the fireman that all houses matter when he is putting out the one on fire.

Hull being one of the whitest cities in the country probably doesnt give most people there the perspective to understand fully, but other people becoming more equal doesnt take anything away from you.

We dont need a banner flying, because White lives have always mattered, now lets make sure everyone else does too

Well said.

I expect some people on here also have issues with the MOBO Awards and International Women's Day.

I take it that the Hull comment was aimed at me?

I was born in Hull but grew up in the middles east. I also spent 5 years living and working in Shanghai as well as 6 years living in south Carolina. Whilst in the US i was in charge of a mostly black team of engineers. I've experienced living in very racially diverse parts of the world and had many many conversations with friends, black, white and asian, about the issues that America seems to suffer with. They all, to a man point to cultural issues first and foremost.

I am not arguing about racism existing, of course it does, but there is not an institution aimed at keeping them down. The issue is far far deeper than BLM will have you believe. Why is everyone oppressed? If you're black, its the white mans fault, if you're white its the one percent! No-one is stopping you from getting on in life except you. It's far easier to call victim than it is to take some responsibility for your own actions.

The lack of equality across everything makes this patently untrue.

If you live in a poor area, you go to a worse school, your teachers arent quite as good, you get worse grades, get a worse job, on a lower income and are less likely to have financial support from your family

Now compound that with being BAME and having racism added to it.

No one is stopping you trying, but plenty of structures prevent you from achieving it as easily as others.

Equality of opportunity or outcome.

It makes it harder no doubt, but certainly not impossible. There are cultural issues within these communities that compound racial problems that they no doubt experience. But again, what structures are in place specifically to keep black people down?

Quote: easthullwesty "Equality of opportunity or outcome. It makes it harder no doubt, but certainly not impossible. There are cultural issues within these communities that compound racial problems that they no doubt experience. But again, what structures are in place specifically to keep black people down?'" It's less obvious in the UK, and is mainly class based, but there are a few thing easily pointed out; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417 - Here BAME people have to apply to on average 60% more roles, changing your name can give instant positive results https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/ma ... acial-bias - Here Black people are 40x more likely to be stopped and searched by Police So straight away its harder to get a job, and you are less likely to trust the establishment and feel marginalized just by existing I'm a working class white guy who worked hard and did OK, it takes nothing away from me appreciating that its harder for others than it was for me. I don't want it to be hard for anyone.

Quote: easthullwesty "Equality of opportunity or outcome. It makes it harder no doubt, but certainly not impossible. There are cultural issues within these communities that compound racial problems that they no doubt experience. But again, what structures are in place specifically to keep black people down?'" It's less obvious in the UK, and is mainly class based, but there are a few thing easily pointed out; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417 - Here BAME people have to apply to on average 60% more roles, changing your name can give instant positive results https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/ma ... acial-bias - Here Black people are 40x more likely to be stopped and searched by Police So straight away its harder to get a job, and you are less likely to trust the establishment and feel marginalized just by existing I'm a working class white guy who worked hard and did OK, it takes nothing away from me appreciating that its harder for others than it was for me. I don't want it to be hard for anyone.