I agree the judgement will be when recruitment is finish. However not sure about the holding over the barrel scenario though, my point is the club stated G.Ellis signed for us even though we did not offer the most money, claiming he bought into the vision, why are a lot of our key players not buying into this vision even though they are being offered revised better contracts, this is not just about 1 or 2 players this is about possibly half a dozen (key players)
Also the club clearly want to keep some of these players and appear not to be able to do so. Why has G. Ellis bought into this vision yet the players we already have are not buying into it ?

Then why all the angst now? We're not halfway through [ithis[/i season yet, so there's a long way to go before next season's squad is complete.



Possibly half a dozen? All you've got to go on is message board rumour and speculation. However, even if they all turn out to be true, let's just look at the individual scenariosbecause[/i of the new culture at the club. If he goes, it will be back to the NRL, and who could blame him? Or the club, for that matter?

Briscoe - May go to the NRL, may not. He's contracted for next year, so a transfer fee would need to be paid by any club wanting his services. If he does go, again, it's hard to blame the club for the fact that a young player wants to test himself in the best club competition in the world. If he goes to another SL club, I'll be disappointed though.

Manu - Rumoured to have been offered more money over two years by Saints than we have offered over three. If that's the case, he'd be daft not to take it. It goes back to what I said earlier - we need to get the best possible value from the salary cap. We've gone as high as we possibly can by the sounds of it, and it would be foolish to try and hang on to him at all costs.

Turner - Rumour has it that he wants to be nearer his family in Lancashire. If that's the case, fair enough. I don't get all the concern about Turner. Yes, he looks very good this season. Yes, he's improved his defence. But it wasn't that long ago that many thought he wouldn't make it, and he only has half a season of consistently good performances under his belt. I'd like to keep him, but if he goes, there are better players out there.

O'Meley - Rumoured to have fallen out with the club. It happens. Maybe he's still sore about Agar going? Should the club have kept Agar to keep O'Meley happy?


I must reiterate - all of the above is rumour and speculation. Some or all of the players mentioned might actually stay. If they all go, then the reasons they are leaving are, in the vast majority of cases, personal, and nothing the club could do differently would change those reasons. In the case of Manu, the club are right not to commit too much of the salary cap on another back rower when we need strengthening in other areas. It's really nothing to do with players 'not buying into the vision'.

So, if we lose this half dozen players, we'll have to give AP, McRae and Gentle the time they need to find suitable replacements, which I'm fairly confident they will do.

Fair comment, hope you are right, I have not lost my faith in them just feel a bit uneasy, the recruitment is going to be a big task especially replacing some of the quality we may lose, hopefully we will recruit well

The other side of the coin maybe that they have had it good under the previous regime and now maybe do not like the change as there are certain targets and acheivement to make not just settle for scraping into the play offs as previous seasons.

The training may now also be a lot different and mean alot more hard work and whilst I'm not saying that the players are not adverse to extra effort it maybe that they simply do not like the change or possible pressure/expectation and wish to go elsewhere.

We have said for long enough as fans that we have too many players that are average and have not done won anything with these players. Also it was reported IIRC that as a club we did not get good value from the salary cap again with value/worth of the players so this may also have a bearing as AP, PG & SM may well have sorted this out to maximise our roster with the Cap restrictions.

I'm sure whatever happens between now and next season we will have a team at the start of 2013 that will be more than competitive and as we have seen already with the Gentle Touch so far a team that gives its all.

That's what I'd like to see , Horne at 1 and a new Half signed .

The ‘revised better contracts’ doesn’t have to mean better than the one they are presently on.
It may mean better than the initial offer made on a new contract.

Yes I understand that.

I can remember the time in the late 70`s and 80`s when players were queueing up to sign fo FC when we had that golden era. Players such as Knocker, Bridges, Farrar, Stone and Newlove started the influx which was to lead to our capture of the great David Topliss James Leuluai, Gary Kemble and Dane O'Hara. Fred Ah Koi thought it better to stay in Sydney but changed his mind the following season when he saw how much success was coming our way. This success led to players contacting the club instead of the other way round. Our signing of Peter Sterling went to show how big a club we were. Players then wanted to come here, very few wanted to leave. Those times are about to be repeated I believe, we just have to show patience.

Well he handled it all when he was here as coach, so a fair bit.

Good post.

I believe this will be one of the reasons for a few individuals.

As for not buying into the vision, then they gladdly leave and we can bring someone who does.

Like was said earlier if all those names leave then so be it, if they dont want to play for FC then bye bye
Manu.. class , hate to see him go but if he does then i understand why.
Briscoe.. young fella with a chance to live in Oz for a while and be paid decent cash ... who wouldnt
Ogre.. end of is time shortly anyway
Moa... family comes first
Turner... Family comes first
Mackinnon ...Family comes first
Thats all there is to it, they either sign or they do not and if they do not then we have bags of wonga there to bring in replacements for them
and as for people questioning again the recruitment process ...... think Gaz Ellis!!!!!
AP, Bomber and PG have clearly got a game plan and a time line in which to execute it so lets leave it with them and reap the sunshine when it comes to fruition

I think the Rose tinted glasses need to come off.

Firstly, Bridges was signed in 1982, with only Ah Koui arriving after bridges had hung up his boots.

If you think any class player contacted the club you are sorely mistaken.
And this golden era you talk of?? From when the spending started big in 1978 to when we were forced to sell off big names just to stay afloat in 1987 we managed to win a grand total of 3 major competitions (JPS and CC in '82 and the league in '83). The BBCFT and the Yorkshire cup were secondary trophies at the time

Players came in those days from outside of Hull because our board at the time dug deep and splashed the cash. However three major trophies in nine years is hardly anything to write home about, not when put in comparison with how Wigan dominated in the late '80s/early '90s. Or how Bradford and St Helens took over that mantel for the first 8 years of SL and how Leeds have since dominated.

I think this is where we as a collective of fans over expect on our team. Yes our team of the early '80s was good and played good rugby, but they never dominated the game for any length of time.

Good post

So the 3 finals in 80,83 and 85 have just been forgotten.

I have not read this entire thread but what i find hard to understand is the following. Sorry if its been asked already.
Manu signs when Cas were relegated thinking we would kick on and win silverware. He then extends his stay under Agar. Did he have ambition to win trophies or was he happy to be a big fish in a small pond? He is now offered a contract to play in a team under a decent coach with an owner with genuine ambition. why would he want to go elsewhere? Does he lack ambition.
I accept money talks but the stress of moving family etc from a settled enviroment and the re settling period etc is it worth it? Surely with a salary cap the difference in package cant be that much. or is it?
If he goes elsewhere i would question his desire. Is it that Gentle's methods are too much for some of Agar's boys.