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Quote: frepneyboy "You know what, i actually back Pearson, it appears his contract management is very good, something hes very sharp on. We have pulled some good deals since he's been about in the releasing of players and bringing in replacements mid term.

What if, for example, Millers contract was back loaded. Paid say £40k pa for first 2/3 years then in the last year £150k. Is AP trying to ship out before the big bucks are due?'"

It's possible. Although for cap value purposes it doesn't matter whether the deal is back or front loaded as they just use the total value averaged over the length of the contract. So in the example above...

(40 x 3)+150=£270k
270/4=£67.5k cap value per year.

Edit: So that means paying him off saves £67.5k from the cap regardless of which year of his contract it happens.

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Quote: Rock God X "Ah, right. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion. A few on here have tried to do so, however.

Players have bad spells/go downhill for all sorts of reasons. He could have been decent in the NRL and still not very good for us. He only had a handful of good games in a Hull shirt and was far too inconsistent for me.

You might be right on the Radford/Miller thing, but I think Seymour deserved to be dropped by Gentle.'"


But Seymour wasn't given any game time in the friendlies with Holdsworth. Instead , rather like Miller in this pre season , he was played with inexperienced or out of position partners behind a weaker pack which indicated from the outset that he was down the pecking order. To me if you've got a "7" on your books - and I know there was some debate about that with Seymour - then you've got to at least give him a chance with the best supporting players around him to find out if , in a match situation with a run of games he can cut it or not. We should have put Rankin and Miller together from the first friendly and guaranteed them say 10 games to form a partnership. Houghton and Heremaia used properly are a good hooking combination and Horne gives good utility and cover potentially being able to play anywhere down the spine including loose man or hooker.
Anyone notice Tom Gilmore looking out of place at halfback for Widnes? Probably only his second or third first team game and looked comfortable albeit against a poor side. Despite our talk of emerging youngsters I doubt at the moment we'd give HTW a chance even if we had injuries. Players are no good in the stands or reserves IF we don't have confidence in them. How will we ever know if they can make it?

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Quote: barham red "All of that just makes the decision not to give Rankin and Miller a shot, initially in the friendlies, and then a reasonable run at the start of the season all the more baffling. I’ve criticised our half back pairing over the weeks but there are shoots of light starting to show, it’ll take time no doubt but I’d rather stick with it for a few more weeks as the options we have will be worse.

I said a few weeks back if FC turn out againt us with Heremaia in the halves I’d be delighted because at Hooker he causes real problems.'"


Can't argue with that

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Quote: carl_spackler "Personally I think the main problem has not always been Horne himself, but the fact that we haven't signed the right sort of partner for him. Regardless of the fact that Horne wore the 7, Cooke played most of that role for us in the leadership sense, organising a team has never been a strength of Horne's. Since Cooke left we've signed a succession of players who either weren't organisers either, didn't have 2 working legs, or had attitude/motivational problems.

I do think that Horne is past his best now, too, though. We can't rely on him to stay fit and produce consistent performances, unfortunately.'"

The sad thing is, Horne is probably the least of our problems. Can't believe after last season (one of our best players) and this season where he has not really done much wrong, people are still slating him. He should have been a great bench impact cover player for 3 years. None of this is this consumate professionals fault and he wears his shirt justifiably at the moment. I'd like to see Rankin at 1, horne 6 and miller 7.

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I am afraid as much as Richard Horne has been a fantastic servant to Hull FC, he is not good enough now.
Yet again since 2007 Hull FC have not addressed the major flaw in our squad .
Until a halfback who can run a game and provide the service and spark needed we will never push on.
Heremaia can cover for a few games , but his impact at hooker off the bench is what we need.
Horney is in the twilight of his great career' and our 2 rookie Aussie gambles look just that !!
Our pack when all fit can mix it with the best . The link between them and the backs will plague us again!

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Quote: hull smallears "The sad thing is, Horne is probably the least of our problems. Can't believe after last season (one of our best players) and this season where he has not really done much wrong, people are still slating him. He should have been a great bench impact cover player for 3 years. None of this is this consumate professionals fault and he wears his shirt justifiably at the moment. I'd like to see Rankin at 1, horne 6 and miller 7.'"


I agree that early last season he was one of our best players, but then what happened? He got injured, and when he came back struggled a bit (partly because he shuffled positions a bit, I accept). I'm not slating him at all, I'm just pointing out that he is on the downward trajectory of his career, and we cannot confidently plan around him being fit and in form. I don't think it's unfair to say that he's not as good now as he once was, and that he has injury concerns these days too.

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Quote: Kosh "It's possible. Although for cap value purposes it doesn't matter whether the deal is back or front loaded as they just use the total value averaged over the length of the contract. So in the example above...

(40 x 3)+150
Doesnt fit with the "live cap" IMO

I reckon Salford have loaded their big gun contracts on the last year, thats why they are on 4 year deals, do you really think Hock will do 4 years there?

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I'm not making excuses for Horne on Sunday but when he was running across the line and nobody else is making a run, dummy or otherwise, the opposition can just flatten him. Against Bradford in the first half we had dummy runners, i commented after one of our tries that it was scored because Mickey Paea ran through the line and the cut out pass found a player who found the gap and scored.

On Sunday nobody could be @rsed; a prime example was when Ellis got his arm free 5 yards out, was looking round to offload for what would have been a walk in but the rest were just setting up for the next play; it's the expectation and belief that your team mate will do something that we lack on days like Sunday and the team just trawls through a series of dull set plays with minimum effort. If Miller plays he'll get smashed just the same as Horne because if nobody makes the effort the opposition will just pick him off.

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Quote: simon_tem "I'm not making excuses for Horne on Sunday but when he was running across the line and nobody else is making a run, dummy or otherwise, the opposition can just flatten him. Against Bradford in the first half we had dummy runners, i commented after one of our tries that it was scored because Mickey Paea ran through the line and the cut out pass found a player who found the gap and scored.

On Sunday nobody could be @rsed; a prime example was when Ellis got his arm free 5 yards out, was looking round to offload for what would have been a walk in but the rest were just setting up for the next play; it's the expectation and belief that your team mate will do something that we lack on days like Sunday and the team just trawls through a series of dull set plays with minimum effort. If Miller plays he'll get smashed just the same as Horne because if nobody makes the effort the opposition will just pick him off.'"


The bradford game we seemed to target outside of olbison who was very weak in D..but your right the dummy runners was part of the plan that night & seem to have drooped off since.

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Doubt miller can be any worse than what we're serving up at the moment. We beat Bradford the other week n everyone hales the players and club, ffs they're e.

Said it for years, if we offloaded Horne, how many teams with realistic aspirations of top 6 would take him on? Non I doubt. He'd end up at Wakey or Rovers, that's it. We seem to get a half on the books and as soon as he makes a mistake, bring back the local messiah. We should have binned him off a few seasons back, he's hindering other player development. Now radders is in charge, he'll be a shoe in all season.

Voting for relegation seems a tad scary now.

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Quote: GM1 "Doubt miller can be any worse than what we're serving up at the moment. We beat Bradford the other week n everyone hales the players and club, ffs they're poop.

Said it for years, if we offloaded Horne, how many teams with realistic aspirations of top 6 would take him on? Non I doubt. He'd end up at Wakey or Rovers, that's it. We seem to get a half on the books and as soon as he makes a mistake, bring back the local messiah. We should have binned him off a few seasons back, he's hindering other player development. Now radders is in charge, he'll be a shoe in all season.

Voting for relegation seems a tad scary now.'"


Ahh the old "It's all Horne's fault" argument. In case you haven't noticed we've been top six for the past two years with Horne playing for us mostly in the halves. Should he be first choice? Maybe, maybe not but should we have "binned him off"? Absolutely not.

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With inexperienced players at 1 & 7 I think Horne needs to stay at 6.
He's never been found the right partner (Head & Dykes were, but were never fit) since Cooke left. Miller is that kind of player but needs time. I worry now that because we're in a poor state up front Miller won't be able to do much and will then get slated on here.

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Quote: *1865* "I worry now that because we're in a poor state up front Miller won't be able to do much and will then get slated on here.'"


It's almost as if it's happened before...

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Quote: *1865* "I worry now that because we're in a poor state up front Miller won't be able to do much and will then get slated on here.'"


If Miller plays he obviously needs a run of games in order for him to stamp his authority on the team and run the attack. That is what he will have to do over the course of a few games as that's the job of the scrum half. People will need to assess whether he's done that over a period of time as you say not just after one or two games. Having said that it's not a player nursery it's Super league level - the 'experienced' players in the halves were poor in the last game so over the course of 5-10 games Miller will need to prove that he can be consistently better than them.

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Quote: Staffs FC "If Miller plays he obviously needs a run of games in order for him to stamp his authority on the team and run the attack. That is what he will have to do over the course of a few games as that's the job of the scrum half. People will need to assess whether he's done that over a period of time as you say not just after one or two games. Having said that it's not a player nursery it's Super league level - the 'experienced' players in the halves were poor in the last game so over the course of 5-10 games Miller will need to prove that he can be consistently better than them.'"


A very sound and reasonable response. I hope that people listen.

304 posts in 21 pages 
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