FORUMS > Hull FC > Salary cap management |
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| Quote: Armavinit "Could the infamous claim by Bumpy, that contracts had been backloaded be true and that’s why the ratio appears to be lopsided? He’d love being here and telling us all “I told you so”. A lot of his birds appear to be coming home to roost.'"
No Bumpy is an embittered fool. The salary split up is similar to most clubs. Maybe Wigan, who have a lot of young, up & coming home grown players on their roster can distribute it more more evenly but that option isn't available to most clubs. Even then if these players become really good then they still would have to offload some to maintain that distribution.
No doubt Radford will eventually be moved out - probably following a run of indifferent results just like the vast majority of those that coach at top level. If you look at the history of any club not many coaches left because they were doing too well so simple odds say most appointments end in tears. Following those odds and predicting a coaches demise doesn't show any great insight at all, its happened to a lot of very good ones. In this city two of the most successful of all coaches, Arthur Bunting & Roger Millward left in rather sad circumstances in the end - did that make them rubbish?
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| If those figures had been produced in 2016 season or last season then the answer would be no but looking at the squad now, Mini and Washy surely won’t be on big deals. Shaul maybe,Talanoa and Faraimo surely not. Carlos maybe, Griffin maybe, Sneyd and Kelly definitely, Taylor and Houghton definitely, Manu just resigned, would he command a big deal? Connor definitely. Who else would command big money so I would say that the cap is disproportionate to the squad.
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| Quote: Armavinit "If those figures had been produced in 2016 season or last season then the answer would be no but looking at the squad now, Mini and Washy surely won’t be on big deals. Shaul maybe,Talanoa and Faraimo surely not. Carlos maybe, Griffin maybe, Sneyd and Kelly definitely, Taylor and Houghton definitely, Manu just resigned, would he command a big deal? Connor definitely. Who else would command big money so I would say that the cap is disproportionate to the squad.'"
Griffin is in the top 5/6 earners I believe
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| Quote: Armavinit "Could the infamous claim by Bumpy, that contracts had been backloaded be true and that’s why the ratio appears to be lopsided? He’d love being here and telling us all “I told you so”. A lot of his birds appear to be coming home to roost.'"
Several of Motu Tony's contracts particularly in the 2015 and 2016 influx were backloaded and not just over one year.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "If you were aware that some had greater achievements than others then it seems odd to suggest 68% / 83% as inappropriate. Perhaps you wanted to negatively spin it by saying we've left "only 17% for another 10 or so" which is an exaggeration, and then compound with a comment about breeding complacency. Most responses so far appear to be aligned to the viewpoint that 68% / 83% given a few exceptional performers in there is OK.'"
I was asking a question and asking for opinions. I don't do spin, but as ever you go completely overboard to make a non existent point. Haven't you got some beans to count rather than looking for reactions on here?
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| Quote: Armavinit "If those figures had been produced in 2016 season or last season then the answer would be no but looking at the squad now, Mini and Washy surely won’t be on big deals. Shaul maybe,Talanoa and Faraimo surely not. Carlos maybe, Griffin maybe, Sneyd and Kelly definitely, Taylor and Houghton definitely, Manu just resigned, would he command a big deal? Connor definitely. Who else would command big money so I would say that the cap is disproportionate to the squad.'"
Stop it with that negative spin
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| Disappointing but unsurprising that contributions to this topic are more about personal insults than addressing the original question.
As I understand it the cap is around £1.8m for the top 25 players. Therefore if everyone gets the same slice, that's £72k each. However what we know is that 83%, ie £1.5m is spent on the top 17 earners, ie their average is £88k. It's probably fair to speculate that there will be a range of salaries within this group. We know Kelly is on a big wedge, which you'd expect as a MoS nominee. Taylor and Connor probably get some sort of international weighting, and Manu is international captain. Houghton is a MoS winner and club captain. Let's say for the sake of argument that these get £100k each, with Kelly on £150k, that's £550k on our top 5 earners, leaving £950k for the next 12, presumably Shaul, Faraimo, Tuimavave, Griffin, Talanoa, Sneyd, Bowden, Green, Minichiello, Hadley, Westerman, Paea. They'd be on an average of £79k each. Then the last 7 - at a guess Abdull, Matongo, Washbrook, Logan, Downs, Litten, Miloudi would share the 17% - £300k - at an average of £38k each. Would this be hugely disproportionate?
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Disappointing but unsurprising that contributions to this topic are more about personal insults than addressing the original question.
As I understand it the cap is around £1.8m for the top 25 players. Therefore if everyone gets the same slice, that's £72k each. However what we know is that 83%, ie £1.5m is spent on the top 17 earners, ie their average is £88k. It's probably fair to speculate that there will be a range of salaries within this group. We know Kelly is on a big wedge, which you'd expect as a MoS nominee. Taylor and Connor probably get some sort of international weighting, and Manu is international captain. Houghton is a MoS winner and club captain. Let's say for the sake of argument that these get £100k each, with Kelly on £150k, that's £550k on our top 5 earners, leaving £950k for the next 12, presumably Shaul, Faraimo, Tuimavave, Griffin, Talanoa, Sneyd, Bowden, Green, Minichiello, Hadley, Westerman, Paea. They'd be on an average of £79k each. Then the last 7 - at a guess Abdull, Matongo, Washbrook, Logan, Downs, Litten, Miloudi would share the 17% - £300k - at an average of £38k each. Would this be hugely disproportionate?'"
If your figures are correct no wonder Pearson was spitting feathers and I don’t see how Kelly can be on 50% more than Taylor or Houghton.
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| Quote: Armavinit "If your figures are correct no wonder Pearson was spitting feathers and I don’t see how Kelly can be on 50% more than Taylor or Houghton.'"
It's obviously just illustrative of the point that there'll be some spread of earnings within the top 17 and bottom 8.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Disappointing but unsurprising that contributions to this topic are more about personal insults than addressing the original question.
As I understand it the cap is around £1.8m for the top 25 players. Therefore if everyone gets the same slice, that's £72k each. However what we know is that 83%, ie £1.5m is spent on the top 17 earners, ie their average is £88k. It's probably fair to speculate that there will be a range of salaries within this group. We know Kelly is on a big wedge, which you'd expect as a MoS nominee. Taylor and Connor probably get some sort of international weighting, and Manu is international captain. Houghton is a MoS winner and club captain. Let's say for the sake of argument that these get £100k each, with Kelly on £150k, that's £550k on our top 5 earners, leaving £950k for the next 12, presumably Shaul, Faraimo, Tuimavave, Griffin, Talanoa, Sneyd, Bowden, Green, Minichiello, Hadley, Westerman, Paea. They'd be on an average of £79k each. Then the last 7 - at a guess Abdull, Matongo, Washbrook, Logan, Downs, Litten, Miloudi would share the 17% - £300k - at an average of £38k each. Would this be hugely disproportionate?'"
All very interesting but pure speculation. Do you remember when you used to try and convince me that hetherington wasn't fleecing the club and that jimmy rule was doing a great job?
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "All very interesting but pure speculation. Do you remember when you used to try and convince me that hetherington wasn't fleecing the club and that jimmy rule was doing a great job?'"
Of course. But here's a question for you. You imply the club's not doing the right thing in terms of cap distribution. Scenarios are presented that are both reasonable and aligned to information we have that challenge this. Your only response is to resort to personal insults. Why not present a reasoned response?
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "All very interesting but pure speculation. Do you remember when you used to try and convince me that hetherington wasn't fleecing the club and that jimmy rule was doing a great job?'"
Oh those were the days.
Don't forget the other old classic, if we don't buy passes the club will go out of business
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| Quote: Bombed Out "Oh those were the days.
Don't forget the other old classic, if we don't buy passes the club will go out of business
Have you seen the net debt position? Clearly not.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Of course. But here's a question for you. You imply the club's not doing the right thing in terms of cap distribution. Scenarios are presented that are both reasonable and aligned to information we have that challenge this. Your only response is to resort to personal insults. Why not present a reasoned response?'"
No one is personally insulting you.
I think he is just implying your numbers are fictional, you over egg the pudding verbally and use a lot of jargon.
But again it's not personal.
Anyway Radford said our cap distrubution is probably no different to the other big teams it just comes down to lack of quality thereafter in youth product and squad fillers.
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| Quote: Bombed Out "No one is personally insulting you.
I think he is just implying your numbers are fictional, you over egg the pudding verbally and use a lot of jargon.
But again it's not personal.
Anyway Radford said our cap distrubution is probably no different to the other big teams it just comes down to lack of quality thereafter in youth product and squad fillers.'"
Sounds about right. The issues with the squad IMO are levels of injury this season and lack of penetration in the forwards, Taylor apart, which won't be resolved fully by injured players returning. I did like having Litten and Houghton on together tonight, that brought a different dimension. But we need to replace Watts and Ellis somehow.
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