We'll have him back if you don't want him...

To be fair he has not been quite as prolific at Hull as he was at Cas so far but I think he makes a huge contribution. A good clue was his worth in the Fantasy RL points stats...think he is about the highest and it is not even his best position.

You're talking e, it's as simple as that.

Apart from Liam Farrell, I can't think of a better English 2nd rower 23 or under.

And I rest my case, your honour.

For me I don't necessarily think its laziness more a case of tiredness from expelling energy. Again he's been used like Ellis as an extra battering ram instead of where both him & Ellis can be devastating down the edges. A proper structured attack utilising the skills of Westerman & Ellis will make a huge difference to us and give us a different dimension altogether.

I personally think that's the least accurate of all the criticisms that are levelled at him. Error counts, penalties, the missed big hits, etc. I can at least see people making a case, but lazy?

Our 2nd highest tackler.
Our 3rd highest marker tackles.
Our 3rd highest carries.
6th highest metres (4th if you take out McDonnell and Briscoe due to kick returns).

These are the 4 key stats to look at for a player's effort and he comes out highly in all of them, only Houghton beats him in each category. What was that about watching properly again?

Exactly. The stats show that he does/looks for as much or more work than anyone except Houghton. He then simply runs out of steam at times and just can't carry on at the same rate, which gets him sloppy sometimes.

I'd be interested to see the stats on how many minutes our forwards have played this year, I suspect he'd be out in front of even Houghton, and reasonably comfortably.

John Bateman and Stevie Ward

I tend to agree with this. Hope he steps up next year. I think youth is on his side and can turn into a hopefully great player for us

I don't believe he's lazy at all. And neither would anyone else who actually watches how he plays. Hence my comment.

Stevie Ward hes nowhere near established as westy, or Bateman tbf, westy was out of position as ive posted before, PG tried to play westy in a Paul Gallen/Sam Burgess role as a third prop and westermans game as allways been outwide a playmaking looseforward. imo

Stevie Ward hes nowhere near established as westy, or Bateman tbf, westy was out of position as ive posted before, PG tried to play westy in a Paul Gallen/Sam Burgess role as a third prop and westermans game as allways been outwide a playmaking looseforward. imo

Bateman's a sick note and Stevie Ward? Really?

Only other contender I can think of is Michael Lawrence.

Great news, one of our better players last season. Would like to see him take over from Ellis as captain in a year or so.