the major difference between L**ds and FC is the position of Gary as a paid employee, there is no way the BOD of L**ds will accept mediocrity for as long as the FC BOD appear happy to.

leeds don't have the talent any more. You're in the same position we've been in for a few years now - convincing ourselves that past playing achievements are an indicator of current ability. leeds have failed to re-invent their ageing squad in the same way saints have and are a long way behind wire and wigan in ability terms. The only positive in the current era is that the salary cap allows a team to re-invent itself in a relatively short space of time but without vision at boardroom level and ability in the coaching team it's not goingto happen. Hull have neither, leeds potentially have the vision but I'm not certain your focus is currently on playing matters.

One thing is for certain, the chances of either club picking up a trophy this year is the square root of zilch

I cannot arge with this.
I thought we would lose on Friday and win this week. I now think we will get bummed live on the BBC.

I'm hearing you. We have lost our way for sure. But Leeds do have brilliant kids coming through again who will hit the first team in the next season or two. With ablett, delaney, hall, Watkins, bjb, hardacker, mcshane and Clarkson already playing plus the new kids the future looks good. but unlike saints who you rightly point out have a coach who has got it happening with those kids right now Leeds need a coach to bring the team together lead by McGuire, burrow, Bailey and sinfield who still have plenty of rugby in em.

I don't know what hull have coming through but with it been an rl hot bed it should be as good as anyone. I think coaching is still the main issue which I'm sure nobody will be arguing against

Never a truer word said pal. The current Leeds status quo typifies the need for a top quality proven coach to be installed at the top. Although it could be argued that the strength in depth which McClennan and Smith had to work with is not quite there for McDermott. Or is that just a perception which has been caused simply because of the differences is coaching quality between them?

An excellent question and food for thought! I would recon with smith, madge or brown in charge Leeds would be near the top fighting for honours. and with better/fit halves I see no reason why fc couldn't be their or their abouts

probably we wouldn't be top, but would be top 4 year on year and we would actually beat the big clubs more than once in a while. sadly no british coaches seem to be up to it in the british game any more

have they ever been?

With the current squads but better coaches, I would say that both Leeds and Hull would be competing for the top 4, with Leeds possibly capable of a GF appearance thanks to greater big game experience. Don't think either would be good enough for a trophy still, though.

Noble was, like him or not.

the price of franchising I am afraid, for both clubs.

To be fair, he is right.

really, was he, or did he just spend loads of cash?

He had the same salary cap to deal with as others. Certainly Wigan/Saints/Leeds and he more than just competed with Raper, Millward, and Smith.

Some Bradford people would disagree!