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[b:16wvcohs]"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - [i:16wvcohs]Peter Sterling[/i:16wvcohs][/b:16wvcohs] [quote="Adam Pearson said not":16wvcohs][b:16wvcohs]I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more[/b:16wvcohs][/quote:16wvcohs]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12839.png



Quote: Dalek "The long miss out pass to the winger looks spectacular, but is it me, most of them look forward to me?

Barry McDermott aluded to this on Boots N All last night. In my younger days one difference between League and Union was the forward pass was rarely got away with in league. Now it is a plague of the game.

It seems the referee relies more on the position of the passers hands. I do have sympathy with the linesmen that I am judging from a stationary position (and I agree - not always in direct line) but the linesman can be running at full speed when trying to judge.

It is why I would always put away supporters at the ends of grounds, so offsides and forward passes by the home team are impossible to complain about.

In a game where the difference between winning and losing is only small things now - I believe the forward pass is spoiling it. I dont believe both of Wigan's late tries against us were legal as the best recent example.'"


I agree with you about forward passes my tin-clad friend. They are ruining the game as officials continue to turn a blind eye to them on a regular basis. I would like to see the video ref rule on them - it might mean a few tries disallowed that weren't forward but more errors would be caught than would be made in my view.

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I don't think there are that many forward passes that go undetected (though there are some). It's just that many fans assume that if a ball travels forward relative to the point where it was passed, it is always forward pass.

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[b:16wvcohs]"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - [i:16wvcohs]Peter Sterling[/i:16wvcohs][/b:16wvcohs] [quote="Adam Pearson said not":16wvcohs][b:16wvcohs]I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more[/b:16wvcohs][/quote:16wvcohs]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12839.png



Quote: Rock God X "I don't think there are that many forward passes that go undetected (though there are some). It's just that many fans assume that if a ball travels forward relative to the point where it was passed, it is always forward pass.'"


Which as you rightly point out is a wrong assumption. Another wrong assumption that if the passer passes the ball forward but runs like hell to get in front of the receiver before he catches it then 'momentum' means the pass can't be forward.

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Quote: Staffs FC "Which as you rightly point out is a wrong assumption. Another wrong assumption that if the passer passes the ball forward but runs like hell to get in front of the receiver before he catches it then 'momentum' means the pass can't be forward.'"


Indeed - that one is Stevo's fault. But if the player throws a ball in a backwards direction, but their own forward momentum at the time of passing carries the ball forward relative to where it was passed, the pass is still backwards. This is the mistake a lot of people make: they see where the ball was passed, and where it was received, put two and two together and come up with five.

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Quote: Staffs FC "Which as you rightly point out is a wrong assumption. Another wrong assumption that if the passer passes the ball forward but runs like hell to get in front of the receiver before he catches it then 'momentum' means the pass can't be forward.'"


In this day and age, would it not be possible to have a microchip inside the ball or some way of tracking the ball that would alert the official immediately if the ball was forward? If someone could develop a system that could do this accurately, I think they could make a bit of money. Surely there is a way of doing this already. Look at how opta track players to measure distance covered etc.

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Quote: fcandy "In this day and age, would it not be possible to have a microchip inside the ball or some way of tracking the ball that would alert the official immediately if the ball was forward? If someone could develop a system that could do this accurately, I think they could make a bit of money. Surely there is a way of doing this already. Look at how opta track players to measure distance covered etc.'"


No, because it isn't the flight of the ball that indicates it's forward, as has alread been stated.

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Quote: Rock God X "Indeed. But if the player throws a ball in a backwards direction, but their own forward momentum at the time of passing carries the ball forward relative to where it was passed, the pass is still backwards. This is the mistake a lot of people make

No doubt about that. My point about the video ref being used would prevent tries like the first Wigan one against us at their place and also the debacle the other week at Leeds - and no doubt a number we've scored that shouldn't have been allowed in the past. I think it would be beneficial to use it. If the technology could be improved to draw a line 'through' the hands of the passing player (perpendicular to the touch lines) and move that line forward at the same rate the player was moving forward after ball release then so much the better but that might be a bit too much of an ask. If that was possible then as long as the ball never crossed in front of the line on its way to the receiver then the pass would be legal. Might be difficult to use for short passes mind but as the OP said it's the long balls to wingers that are being missed the most. I'd still use the technology as it stands now to catch the farcical ones like the two I mentioned.

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Quote: Staffs FC " If the technology could be improved to draw a line 'through' the hands of the passing player (perpendicular to the touch lines) and move that line forward at the same rate the player was moving forward after ball release then so much the better but that might be a bit too much of an ask. If that was possible then as long as the ball never crossed in front of the line on its way to the receiver then the pass would be legal. '"


But what about instances where the passer is hit just after he passes? Their momentum would stop dead, but the ball would still be affected by the forward momentum they had before the impact. To me, if the position of the hands is what the refs look at, this should be fairly easy to judge on a video replay.

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so are you saying the linesman has no input into forward passes? cos it hasnt anything to do with the flight of the ball?

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Quote: Dalek "so are you saying the linesman has no input into forward passes? cos it hasnt anything to do with the flight of the ball?'"

[pedant]There are no linesmen in RL.[/pedant]

The instructions to the Touch Judges can vary from ref to ref. They don't [ihave[/i to be involved in anything beyond judging touch, as their name suggests. In any case, the TJ can still have an input into forward passes without relying on the flight of the ball in the same way as the ref can.

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[b:16wvcohs]"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - [i:16wvcohs]Peter Sterling[/i:16wvcohs][/b:16wvcohs] [quote="Adam Pearson said not":16wvcohs][b:16wvcohs]I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more[/b:16wvcohs][/quote:16wvcohs]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12839.png



Quote: Rock God X "But what about instances where the passer is hit just after he passes? Their momentum would stop dead, but the ball would still be affected by the forward momentum they had before the impact. To me, if the position of the hands is what the refs look at, this should be fairly easy to judge on a video replay.'"


But by definition the momentum is imparted at the point of release not when the player is hit. The 'super technology' icon_smile.gif I refer to would continue to move the line forward at the speed the player was moving before he was hit - the hit has no relevance on the line - that would keep moving. In reality the hit has absolutely no affect on the direction of the pass in any case as it is after the release. If the ball was released after the hit then the line would be stationary like the player.

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Quote: Kosh "I quite miss shouting "FEEEEDINGGGG" at ever scrum though. Still do it occasionally for nostalgia's sake.'"


icon_lol.gif so do I. Quickly followed by not square, offside, crossing and grapple ref! icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Staffs FC "But by definition the momentum is imparted at the point of release not when the player is hit. The 'super technology'
Your technology does indeed sound remarkable. I can't wait for its arrival.

I reckon you won't get it finished before my system for detecting whether a ball has been stolen or lost in the tackle, however. This ingenious system will use highly sensitive temperature sensors to ascertain how many hands were on the ball before it was lost/stolen, together with motion sensors designed to analyse data about the direction of its release, thereby deciding with 99.9% accuracy whether the ball was lost or stolen.

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Quote: Rock God X "Your technology does indeed sound remarkable. I can't wait for its arrival.

I reckon you won't get it finished before my system for detecting whether a ball has been stolen or lost in the tackle, however. This ingenious system will use highly sensitive temperature sensors to ascertain how many hands were on the ball before it was lost/stolen, together with motion sensors designed to analyse data about the direction of its release, thereby deciding with 99.9% accuracy whether the ball was lost or stolen.'"


Needs to have some kind of fingerprint detector and also an accelerometer and GPS tracking so you know who has propelled the ball and in what direction at what speed

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Quote: Jake the Peg "Needs to have some kind of fingerprint detector and also an accelerometer and GPS tracking so you know who has propelled the ball and in what direction at what speed'"


That was all covered under the general description of 'motion sensors'. Apart from the fingerprinting, which I will now introduce without giving you any credit or financial remuneration.

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