First time two Hull fans have said I make good points in a post!!!!!

Obviously I rate Morgan higher than Agar, I think Agar would make a good number 2 as he did previously. To me looking in from outside your club James Rule and Kath Hetherington seem to throw money at players they 'think' to be worth more than the market value which means you have to make do with players of substandard quality to fill the rest of the positions. I do not honestly believe Agar has much choice over the squad he is allowed to pick from. As great as O'Meley, Fitzgibbon and Long are they are taking up what I would imagine to be at least 500k of a 1.65m salary cap. That is a heck of a lot of money to then need another 22 players for around 1m, put in to that around 200k of Berrigans wage if not more then you start to see half of you cap on four or five players. Look then at what local players are getting I again think they are maybe taking more than they are possibly worth and better players could be found for the same amount. (I am guessing at wages and could be a million miles - or pounds - off from the truth).

I actually think a lot of clubs would rather Morgan as their coach but then that is why I expect him to be working in Australia for one of these new clubs very soon!!!

Rovers were more disciplined and respectful of possession. That's why they won. That's what wins every one of our derbies.

But the ill-discipline and lack of respect of posession has been a big feature of Agars team since day one so how do you explain that?

I seem to remember us winning the fair play trophy in 2009. If we've been ill disciplined during all of Agars reign, how do you explain that?

think you have just about hit the nail on the head there.

Some good points Nick but in defence of some Hull fans on here its not a short term knee jerk reaction is it, Perhaps Agar should not go now but the clock should be ticking, what is worrying folks is that despite an off season when several clubs have obviously improved and moved a step up it appears that we have stood still, we still have the same failing but now include some really sloppy defence as well, we all agreed way back (as the club did) where the main problem is, but we have just not made any progress at all in recruiting half back cover and now we are panicking!

Agreed. Agar has been promoted beyond his ability IMO.


Don't agree with this at all. Up until a season or so ago we had the cap spread too evenly and so had a team filled with journeymen. A deliberate policy was then implemented to mimic the pay structures of the more successful sides where a small number of quality players take up a larger proportion of cap space and the rest of the squad comprises good players on lower wages. We're still part way through that restructuring as existing contracts could not be revised, so we may well have a few players on higher wages than they justify, but this is not at the root of our problems. And neither is Agar's ability to recruit and play who he wants - indeed he probably has more freedom in this area than any recent Hull coach.

We have two issues:

1. The squad rebuilding needed after years of poor recruitment and retention isn't complete yet, leaving us with an unbalanced squad.
2. Agar has too many flaws in his coaching to get the team playing to it's full potential - or even a reasonable level of consistency.

It really is that simple.

Got to say Sam Obst is a cracking player who could well be what you are missing. When James Webster came to Rovers all them years ago I was told we had a choice of Obst or Webbo and we chose Webster. For Rovers at that time the choice was the correct one and he not only got us back in the big time but also coached us for a successful period. Obst however killed us everytime we played against him, his Whitehaven days were very good earning him a SL contract, he has limited experience of playing among world class players such as those I mentioned on high wages but as long as he doesnt stand around star struck he could be the one that really pushes you back in the mix.

Any Hull fans wanting a long shot get to bookies and have him as Hulls to try scorer. Sure Briscoe and Sharpe will score plenty as will Yeaman but Obst really has a nack of getting over the line when there really is nothing else on!

FWIW I do think Rule and Hetherington have Hulls best interests at heart and they clearly see Agars coaching ability on a daily basis which is why you should really give him the benefit of the doubt. He has had to rebuild a side that was aging and failing, he took over in difficult circumstances, has put up with so many injuries it's unbelievable and now he's got ill disciplined players to sack, top players walking out and still the fans offer him no sympathy! At the very least give him half a season to prove what his squad can do and not 80 minutes in a slippery cut up pitch on the first day of the season when players fitness's are not upto what they will be in rounds 3 and 4. As the OP states it is short term pain for a long term goal, well your pain might well be over with Obst and Phelps coming to your rescue.

By the way you're only 4 over seas players short of ours now, maybe by half way you'll have a couple more!!!!!!!!

didnt he sign long and fitz...and re-signed radders
jog on mate..

I've held back from commenting so far but I am getting a bit fed up of reading the Anti Agar stuff now so thought as an outsider I would make a comment.

The three best sides in the UK play with a very disciplined set of forwards who lay a platform for 4 or 5 strike players who are generally on the field at the same time.

If Hull had Tansey at Full back, Horne and Long at 6 and 7, Westerman at 13 and to give the argument more standing Houghton at 9 (I appreciate he is a forward technically) they would have one of the top 4 or 5 offensive line ups in the League.

That is why I believe Phil Clarke tipped them as dark horses for the comp.

Yesterday two major things went wrong for me.

After 15 mins the forwards lost their discipline, giving Rovers piggy backs up the field and heaping pressure on an already fragile fringe defence.

The second thing is that Whiting is not the player in attack Tansey is and Turner is a poor mans Richard Horne meaning that once Rovers had got a strangle hold on the possession Hull were relying on Long to tip the balance back for them.

If you can point the finger at Agar for anything I think he should of played Westerman for much longer giving and Turner some options.

For me FC will improve as the season goes on when they have Phelps at full back, Horne at 6, Long at 7 and Westerman at 13 with the influence of James Webster they are going to be a real threat.

Lets remember they scored 22 points yesterday without really playing for more than 15 minutes.

Rich Agar will get it right, the fans need to look at the first quarter of an hour yesterday and hope that by the end of the year your playing that stuff for 70-80 mins.

I don't think Agar can take the team any further than where we're at now. The sooner he realises this , The better for the club. A big defeat on Friday and I would say he should be 30% on his way out.

Ok so REALISTICALLY who would you as fans bring in to coach the team? Do you replace the whole set up or just Agar, he doesnt do it all on his own now does he?

What then do you expect this new coach to bring to the table? Who is available for that coach to bring in and improve your team for 2011? Are you happy to fail this season with a new coach in early so he can rebuild ready for 2012 or would you expect a huge turn around from this new coach?

Can your salary cap afford to pay off Agar along with paying another coach a full years salary this year? Would this extra strain on the salary cap mean the new coach couldn't bring in a player that could turn around your season?? Or do you expect Agar to just walk in to job centre with no such pay off?

I'd rather Hull made an appointment before the end of the season . With room on the cap to bring in some quality for 2012 ,It would give more time for the new coach to sign who he wants and study the team .

Sharp gave Briscoe his debut at Hull. Tansey proved to be a poor signing, he had problems at Leeds with discipline and Agar could not rectify those problems. Westerman has previous with drinking etc and is a risky signing, especially when you consider the hefty price tag attached. Sharp is a good signing and i think he will go well at the club, if he is given chances.



The players are mainly being played out of position because Agar deems that it is better to move 4 or 5 players out of position to fill one spot. Yet other clubs have faith in their reserves to step in and play in their preferred position.
Also the coach has nothing to do with the salary cap.





Agar has had 3 years to sort this out. He had HIS team last season and showed he really has not moved the team forwards. Yes we finished higher than previously, but when you consider the players brought in and our previous position, it was hardly a tough job. Do we just keep burying our heads in the sand in the hope he might eventually get things right?