Sorry my bad it was, a try is a try regardless how its scored

Not denying it. As I said in my first post I take nothing away from hull, they did what had to be done to get a win. My point was you could (and potentially should) of won by a lot more, given our form was more akin to our hkr away, Catalans away, magic weekend etc form as opposed to being any good.

The knock on affect being, despite beating us, you probably didn't play that much better than you did yesterday (I haven't seen both performances to compare) difference being the opposition weren't in capitulate mode...

you've put in to words how I feel much better than I did myself, even attending the home games has become a chore.

Of course how Saints play has nothing to do with the opposition. If Saints play well they win, if for any reason they don't they lose and an inferior team can beat them. No other team beats them on their own merit or get in their faces to force errors and make them play badly. Your arrogance is on a par with that normally only seen on this forum by those FC fans who hold the view that their team is always under performing. They are a big team as well you know. Why is it that your team never turn up at Craven Park. Look at the last six visits, your form always seems to desert you of course that's why we have been allowed to win isn't it!?

I am sat here at my desk with laptop in hand trying not to be a keyboard warrior but,

12 Months ago we were 5 sleeps from Wembley. Okay the performance was very poor against a very poor Wigan side, but can you all remember how we all felt about going to Wembley. The dream was alive and we were 80 minutes from realising a dream. The tills at the club were ringing, we were all on a high. (I say all, but I am sure there were one or two who still found time to moan).

Now 12 months on, I am so incredibly jealous of a small village club who are performing beyond their wildest dreams and are heading down to London for the big day. A team full of ex Hull players playing above anything they did for us. While we languish in 12th position by virtue of a team who had only about 6 players a month before the season started and another who have had 6 points docked. People say we are making progress, I'd hate to see us struggling.

That is the reality of season 2014. A season that has been a complete disaster from start to finish. Sadly I will be around next year as I can't let go fully, but I am like Codhead I am physically distant from the club. My heart though demands a fix of the club, a club that has given me so much, but my fixes are few and far between now and I hold Radford and Mr Pearson responsible.

Jesus! Is there something on this forum that makes people completely miss the point you're trying to make for the sake of an argument?

I've not suggested once hull or hull kr or anyone else were anything but deserving of their wins against us. I've never once suggested that it was saints own shortcomings as the sole reason people beat us. You and hull put yourselves in a position to beat us and did so. ALL I'm suggesting is that Saints performance was more akin to the games like magic weekend, hkr away, Catalans away (no suggestion as to the fact it wasn't the opposition that caused said performance) - the difference being the fact that hull were incapable of capitalising in the same way MIGHT explain that in fact hulls performances might be similar between last week and this week, despite very different results. Is that so crazy?

This. There is clearly something massively wrong within the club, and no one seems to know what to do about it.

I feel pretty much the same way except last year I was already miserable about our poor performances and inconsistency. After the Wembley shambles I found myself wondering whether to bother this year or not. So I'd say I'm right where I was last year but I just got here quicker.

The thing that really angers me is that a part of me has already started to feel optimistic about next year. Idiot. At least this time next season we can't be any lower than 12th.

I get your point, and it is possible, TBH. The big positives in our performance against you were much improved attitude and application, but the craft was still very much missing. If that was the problem yesterday then you may be right, but from the amount of points we conceded and the comments from those that saw the game, it sounds like our attitude was all wrong again, which is a different issue. We might not have been great in beating you, but you really need to have seen us more this season to realise that that was (incredibly) one of our better performances.

On the positive side, Pearson might be able to hold next year's in his back garden.

I live for that Wembley win. I guess its the good times and the feeling they bring that keeps me going. The thought of another last minute try like in 05 and the sheer elation that brings. The reality is that I was totally fed up of everything this time last year, but was living in hope of that famous win at Wembley. Sitting here now that dream is so far from reality its not funny.
As has been said, when we've been cr4p before it was because we were skint. I do not know what the excuse is in 2014.
My only difference to you is that I have no faith at all in us improving next season, with or without half backs as I don't see the brains to implement a decent plan. But we will still be there, buying 150 year anniversary gear and cheering the boys on and getting more frustrated.

I watched Newcastle Man City yesterday and looked at that full stadium. Full of fans in black and white and I would imagine all but a very small number have actually seen their club win anything or note. I asked myself why that was. Why do 50000 Geordies turn up week in week out year after year to see an average side?
Okay there is only 10 to 15000 of us, but what is the pull that keeps us dreaming, keeps us returning, yet ultimately the only constant is that we are disappointed. Even this year, when most of us expected very little. We have somehow produced a squad that has let us down badly.
WHY FFS

Not sure I'd say we have a "team full" of ex Hull players. Granted Kirk Dixon played a handful of games before you decided he wasn't going to make it and he joined us in 2007 and is now knocking on for 150 appearances. Likewise Ellis was deemed not good enough and allowed to join us, and Carvell is playing a very minor role when all our other forwards are injured. Lynch went well for you during his time, but remember he came through our academy system.
So 4 players, 3 of whom barely played for you at all and one who came from Cas in the first place. Hardly a "team-full" is it?

On your logic it could be said that you have a "team full" of ex-Cas players (Westerman, Arundel, Thompson, Watts) who, apart from Watts, have regressed since joining Hull. Next year you'll also have ex-Cas player Marc Sneyd who will probably do the same if the clueless coach you have now is still in charge.

You forgot about Scott Wheeldon, but yeah I've never really understood the 'you have a team of ex-Hull players' when really it's the other way around.

Okay split hairs not FULL but littered with players deemed not good enough for us, even Lynch. Add in Scott Wheeldon as well. The fact of the matter is we thought they were surplus to requirements and yet Mr Powell has manged to mold them into a team that plays with immense pride and performing far better than anybody expected in February 2014.
As for those coming our way only Westerman has improved which is my point entirely. It was certainly not a dig at Cas.

The blame for the debacle lays firmly at the door of Adam Pearson and previous owners.

Why??? , they always appoint unproven Head Coaches, where there are no structures & foundations in place.

We need someone who can gel a group of individuals into a TEAM.

Our passing is slow & inaccurate, dummy runners are virtually non existent. - these are coachable,- you dont need top players to achieve these basic skills.

Game after game, we see the same failings, basic errors slow wayward passing,dropped passes, mistimed dummy runners , I dont feel the staff/players work hard enough at improving basic core skills.