Personally I think the main problem has not always been Horne himself, but the fact that we haven't signed the right sort of partner for him. Regardless of the fact that Horne wore the 7, Cooke played most of that role for us in the leadership sense, organising a team has never been a strength of Horne's. Since Cooke left we've signed a succession of players who either weren't organisers either, didn't have 2 working legs, or had attitude/motivational problems.

I do think that Horne is past his best now, too, though. We can't rely on him to stay fit and produce consistent performances, unfortunately.

There was a time when we had Paul Cooke. Say what you will about Judas but he and Horne were a cracking half back partnership. Since he left we've never recovered be it down to injuries of the players signed, the quality of those players, or our fruitless pursuits of certain players (Chase and Prince).

We also had Danny Brough once upon a time too.

+ we had a leader like Swain from 9 to guide the team round the park.

Good call. Swain was a brilliant captain, a real leader. That charge down of Sinfield's kick in the Cup final in 2005 was epic. Always one of the first things I think about when I think of him.

I also think with Horne teams know exactly what to expect from him when he was younger and fitter he had the speed to do what he's is still doing now, Unfortunately the speed he once relied on is no longer there so he gets caught out too easily.

That's why although as pointed out putting Miller and Rankin in the halfs now may not be instantly rewarded we have to let them build a partnership (the fact they have played together in the halfs previously may speed there interaction up)

All of that just makes the decision not to give Rankin and Miller a shot, initially in the friendlies, and then a reasonable run at the start of the season all the more baffling. I’ve criticised our half back pairing over the weeks but there are shoots of light starting to show, it’ll take time no doubt but I’d rather stick with it for a few more weeks as the options we have will be worse.

I said a few weeks back if FC turn out againt us with Heremaia in the halves I’d be delighted because at Hooker he causes real problems.

I agree completely.

I wasn't seeking to lay his depression at the door of the club/coach/fans. However he played somethjing like 170 first grade NRL games so he can't have been that bad when he came here. He was signed by Agar but I don't think Gentle ever rated him and treated him accordingly. Miller was signed by Gentle and I don't think Radford rates him.

well this threads going well

They weren't given a chance because the coach had already decided that Horne was getting first shot, regardless of what happened in preseason. Same happened for Yeamo too, Arundel never stood a chance of getting first shot.

Ah, right. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion. A few on here have tried to do so, however.



Players have bad spells/go downhill for all sorts of reasons. He could have been decent in the NRL and still not very good for us. He only had a handful of good games in a Hull shirt and was far too inconsistent for me.



You might be right on the Radford/Miller thing, but I think Seymour deserved to be dropped by Gentle.

It's possible. Although for cap value purposes it doesn't matter whether the deal is back or front loaded as they just use the total value averaged over the length of the contract. So in the example above...

(40 x 3)+150=£270k
270/4=£67.5k cap value per year.

Edit: So that means paying him off saves £67.5k from the cap regardless of which year of his contract it happens.

But Seymour wasn't given any game time in the friendlies with Holdsworth. Instead , rather like Miller in this pre season , he was played with inexperienced or out of position partners behind a weaker pack which indicated from the outset that he was down the pecking order. To me if you've got a "7" on your books - and I know there was some debate about that with Seymour - then you've got to at least give him a chance with the best supporting players around him to find out if , in a match situation with a run of games he can cut it or not. We should have put Rankin and Miller together from the first friendly and guaranteed them say 10 games to form a partnership. Houghton and Heremaia used properly are a good hooking combination and Horne gives good utility and cover potentially being able to play anywhere down the spine including loose man or hooker.
Anyone notice Tom Gilmore looking out of place at halfback for Widnes? Probably only his second or third first team game and looked comfortable albeit against a poor side. Despite our talk of emerging youngsters I doubt at the moment we'd give HTW a chance even if we had injuries. Players are no good in the stands or reserves IF we don't have confidence in them. How will we ever know if they can make it?

Can't argue with that

The sad thing is, Horne is probably the least of our problems. Can't believe after last season (one of our best players) and this season where he has not really done much wrong, people are still slating him. He should have been a great bench impact cover player for 3 years. None of this is this consumate professionals fault and he wears his shirt justifiably at the moment. I'd like to see Rankin at 1, horne 6 and miller 7.