And he is right to a degree, they must take some responsibility, there were enough experienced players out on the park last night to win.

Experience is one thing. Ability is something else altogether.

People need to realise that we have too many players in our squad who simply aren't of the required standard. I don't know where this idea that we're a 'decent' team simply being badly coached has come from. Even playing to the best of our ability I doubt we'd have beaten Wigan last night.

I think Wigan produced one of their best performances of the season last night so they probably would have won no matter what. However the performance from Hull was well below standard. I don't think there would be this level of unhappiness if Hull had made a real effort and lost - like this fixture last season for example. As it is the best players in the world aren't going to do much if they are always getting the ball standing still.

Well lets have a look at that team last night.

Shaul - Very good young prospect, potential match winner.
Crookes - Avarage
Crooks - Suffering second season syndrome, but still a good player.
Yeaman - Avarage bordering on poor.
Talanoa - Lacks pace, but a good winger imo.
Horne - Past his best, should only be used as back up.
Miller - Not good enough at this stage.
Paea - Very good prop
Houghton - Good workrate, not such a good skill set
Carvell - Very good prop
Whiting - Having his worst season for Hull, but still a solid player
Ellis - Even now he would get a gig for most teams in the world.
Westerman - One of the players of the season at any club.

Feka - Plays with agression, not a great defender, but hes fine at what he does.
Thompson - Been a good find, big and good feet.
Heremaia - Really good hooker
Bowden - Becoming a good prop.

Now looking at that it seems we have average backs, bad halves and a good pack. That may account for us not scoring enough points and thus not winning, especially when Wigan have played well. It doesnt account for us getting cut to ribbons all over the field. How many of those assessments do you disagree with?

Pretty spot on, I posted last night that sariginson looked like inglis compared to ours, so this to me says we are way below average.

i want a team to be competitive on a weeky basis not once in a blue moon
i want 2 half backs who can run a game stop messing spend some money ffs
i dont want to keep swapping coaches how many do we need before we realise its the average players on a yearly basis
i want to go Catalans and watch Hull not get hammered but i cant see it
i want not to feel disillusioned with this great game but watching Hull is very trying
i want the "diehards" to stop defending this tripe and vote with their wages then Pearson will act

From the fact that we finished 6th for the last two seasons under a coach not deemed good enough to keep his job?

Whilst the squad isn't the best, it's better than current performances. Last night wigan had a team full of average SL players and kids with a couple of decent half backs. What those players did on the night isn't purely down to ability, it's down to coaching and desire.

My biggest current concern is that we seem to be going backwards. I posted earlier in the season that radford seemed to have addressed some simple basic problems we've had for years but these are returning with a vengance and we're slipping back into our old ways.

radford has certainly closed the gap between our best and worst performances, unfortunately the worst are still as bad

I disagree with your assessment of our pack:

Paea - Can be good but too inconsistent (was similar at Rovers).
Houghton - Works hard, phenomenal tackler, below par at everything else you want from a hooker.
Carvell - Was a very good prop, showing why Wire released him.
Whiting - Now past his best.
Ellis - Great start to the season, now off the boil. Still good enough though.
Westerman - Our one top quality player IMO.

Feka - OK, and better than many thought he would be.
Thompson - Useful player but a little too small when played at prop.
Heremaia - Decent hooker. Looks great compared to Houghton but inconsistent.
Bowden - Good prospect, progressing nicely.

So my assessment is that our pack is average in general, capable of s few good performances and more poor performances over a season.

Now - I'm not saying that Radford is getting the best out of these players. He clearly isn't. A better coach would have us playing better, although consistency would likely still be an issue. But at it's very best this squad is good for top 8 and maybe top 6 at a stretch. With a bit of luck and a decent injury record.

Teams around us have strengthened where we've stood still in terms of the squad. And gone backwards in terms of the coach.

I'm not defending Radford at all. I didn't want him appointed in the first place and sadly all my concerns at the time seem to be proving well founded. I'm just saying that changing coach might halt our slide into the relegation dogfight but without fundamental improvements to the squad we're still going to struggle to make an impact on the league.

Playing wise, we are ok at FB, prop and hooker. Every other position needs strenghing.

IMO we need a winger, 2 centres, 2 halfbacks and an attacking backrow forward.

As I said on the other thread, not all of the teams around us have strengthened. Wire and Catalans in particular look much weaker this year than last. I don't think even Cas have a stronger squad than us, they're just much better coached.



Agreed, but the change of coaching staff needs to happen first, to ensure that the right players are retained or replaced.

Agreed.

Don't disagree with that at all.

I disagree about Prop and Hooker.