well some players matched the big fish, little pond scenario yesterday, treat like god like players by fans of their clubs in SL yet went missing when coming up against much better calibre of player

our NRL based players were the standouts imo, (even with the intercept thrown by Radley and dropped ball by Young), shows how far we are still behind the Southern Hemisphere game

Yeah thought the NRL based players where very good, thought Williams and Makinson also excellent.

The three missing Saints players would have made a difference too, a few injuries and we struggle unlike Aus.

Welsby is a fantastic player.All players have an off day.
Not sure Wane got it wrong.We simply made too many errors which cost us the match

As someone said earlier, it was like watching FC, error strewn and daft penalties., can’t do it at any level.

Welsby never a half, might get away with it in Super League but his many limitations brutally exposed yesterday.

Just no passing game, no kicking game, poor defence & much harder to make ground when not kick returning. Thought I saw a bit of petulance more than once, bit reminiscent of our recently departed JC, just didn't cope with not being allowed to boss the game.

Back to full back for me, he might be top class but maybe saw over the weekend what trult top class is ?

Common sense says play the same team who beat samoa in the 1st match

If he played different team and lost people would be saying whys he changed it so wane literally couldn't win

Welsby was the best player last time

Gotta remember samoa have 5 or 6 grand final winners from NRL who walked in the origin team and starred in the origin ( luai, Crichton, to'o )

And I hope samoa win next week

Wasn't just Welsby, Watkins, Bateman, McIlorum and Young all had a poor game. Even so, could have been so much different if Whitehead had taken the tackle at the end of his break. A drop goal would have won it at that stage.

Common sense you don't play an average hooker, who didn't have one good game and offers nothing in attack.

Agree about Samoa winning it, don't think they will get close unfortunately

Roby and Clark are better than mcilorum 100%

But mcilorum offers some defensive aggression but for some reason was getting run over the top against samoa

But he's still a class above Houghton hence why Houghton has never had a full international cap or got close really

He isn't, the main reason he has caps is that he played for Wigan.

Both are solid SL hookers nothing more, England have failed for years, so I'm not sure England caps are a measure of how good a player is.

Because they went at him all game to tire him out because Wane got the bench wrong.

Some players will have played there last world cup for England , Time to move on Tompkins , Hill , McIlorum , Whitehead.

Don't think Whitehead has ever got the credit he deserves, he's consistently one of England's best performers.

Hopefully Newman can get over his injury problems because him and Herbie together could be our centres for the next decade.

We've got Wardle at centre too. Hopefully he can fulfil his potential

I think Whitehead is a fantastic player both for club & Country , but he'll be 36 when France 2025 comes around .