FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > Hull FC > Westerman were he should be !!!
140 posts in 10 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Kosh , Roland_R , Karen
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15980No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2016Jun 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: *1865* "He was our most consistent forward last year too.

Clap trap indeed.'"

Is he playing at a much higher level this year than last year?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach14158No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2024Jun 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Robbo4 "Is he playing at a much higher level this year than last year?'"

Not for me. He's showing the same effort, commitment and skill he always has, he's just doing it in a role that's suited to his skill set this year.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10540No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Robbo4 "The fact he's getting recognition for much improved performances shows that he wasn't performing previously so was rightly criticised. All this high horse clap trap based on selective memory is just boring.'"


It's not selective memory if you weren't heavily criticising, though, is it? The very point is that some of us genuinely thought the level of criticism was unfair and incorrect, and said so at the time. Stating the same now is the definition of consistency.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10540No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: *1865* "Not for me. He's showing the same effort, commitment and skill he always has, he's just doing it in a role that's suited to his skill set this year.'"


Same for me, and the point I made earlier. It's not so much that his play has massively improved, rather that he's been able to be more effective because the circumstances around him have changed.

A bit like Briscoe's start to the season. He's no better a player than he was for us, he's just on a better platform to show it.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15980No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2016Jun 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: carl_spackler "Same for me, and the point I made earlier. It's not so much that his play has massively improved, rather that he's been able to be more effective because the circumstances around him have changed.

A bit like Briscoe's start to the season. He's no better a player than he was for us, he's just on a better platform to show it.'"


Completely disagree. His general play has been far better this season. Better tackling and less attempted "big shots" that invariably completely missed. Less errors including those daft offloads he used to try which I assume is as a result of being given a creative role meaning he doesn't feel like he has to force things. Less penalties including the needless ones he was giving away.

In other words he has cut out the things he was getting criticised for.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15980No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2016Jun 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: carl_spackler "It's not selective memory if you weren't heavily criticising, though, is it? The very point is that some of us genuinely thought the level of criticism was unfair and incorrect, and said so at the time. Stating the same now is the definition of consistency.'"

Claiming the fact he is playing really well now proves he shouldn't have been criticised last season when in many people's opinion he was playing poorly makes no sense.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach4919
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Its all about opinions. Some say he looks better because he was poor in previous seasons. Others, me included, say he looks better because he's playing where he should in a proper structured team. As others have mentioned the general levels of fitness are much higher across the board so he's not the only one who appears to be better than previously.

RankPostsTeam
International Star3338
JoinedServiceReputation
May 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Robbo4 "Claiming the fact he is playing really well now proves he shouldn't have been criticised last season when in many people's opinion he was playing poorly makes no sense.'"

You're not grasping the point. Westerman has always been a skilled loose forward who plays at a great level of intensity, him playing really well now is down to him being utilised effectively. Obviously there'll still be some improvement down to him as he is playing much more confidently, as is often the case when these things happen.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15980No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2016Jun 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: the cal train "Your not grasping the point. Westerman has always been a skilled loose forward who plays at a great level of intensity, him playing really well now is down to him being utilised effectively. Obviously there'll still be some improvement down to him as he is playing much more confidently, as is often the case when these things happen.'"


I'm not grasping the point? Really?

The fact a player is skilled and plays with intensity doesn't mean they are immune from criticism if they make poor errors of judgement or perform poorly. I've never questioned his effort.

RankPostsTeam
Moderator36786
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024May 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: Robbo4 "Completely disagree. His general play has been far better this season. Better tackling and less attempted "big shots" that invariably completely missed. Less errors including those daft offloads he used to try which I assume is as a result of being given a creative role meaning he doesn't feel like he has to force things. Less penalties including the needless ones he was giving away.

In other words he has cut out the things he was getting criticised for.'"

Westerman missed 6% of his tackles last season. His number of tackles was second only to Houghton. As a comparison, Whiting missed 5% of his tackles.

He made 28 errors at an average of 8 errors per 100 carries. This was our top error rate but not by much.

He gave away 3 more penalties all season than Whiting (those two were our worst offenders). And he was hardly the only one giving away needless penalties either.

There's some selective memory going on, but not where you seem to think.

By the way - his missed tackle count is currently worse (9%) and he's still joint top of penalties conceded. His error count is much better though.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10540No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Robbo4 "Completely disagree. His general play has been far better this season. Better tackling and less attempted "big shots" that invariably completely missed. Less errors including those daft offloads he used to try which I assume is as a result of being given a creative role meaning he doesn't feel like he has to force things. Less penalties including the needless ones he was giving away.

In other words he has cut out the things he was getting criticised for.'"


Some interesting stats for you.

Joe Westerman missed tackles per game: 2014 - 3.25, 2013 - 1.8
Errors per game: 2014 - 0.5, 2013 - 1
Offloads per game: 2014 - 1.75, 2013 - 1.18
Penalties per game: 2014 - 1, 2013 - 0.6

So you're right about the errors, but with all of the other things you said the opposite is actually true. His tackling rate has actually got worse, he's missing more, averaging more offloads, and more penalties.

In other words he hasn't cut out the things he was getting criticised for.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10540No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Robbo4 "Claiming the fact he is playing really well now proves he shouldn't have been criticised last season when in many people's opinion he was playing poorly makes no sense.'"


You're right, it doesn't. I'm glad I never.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10540No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Kosh "Westerman missed 6% of his tackles last season. His number of tackles was second only to Houghton. As a comparison, Whiting missed 5% of his tackles.

He made 28 errors at an average of 8 errors per 100 carries. This was our top error rate but not by much.

He gave away 3 more penalties all season than Whiting (those two were our worst offenders). And he was hardly the only one giving away needless penalties either.

There's some selective memory going on, but not where you seem to think.

By the way - his missed tackle count is currently worse (9%) and he's still joint top of penalties conceded. His error count is much better though.'"


You beat me to it. It's not that he's improved what people criticised him for, because in fact he's currently worse than last year at most of it. It's more that he's finally being used for what he's best at, and in much stronger positions. Now that people are seeing that, they seem to fixating less on his every flaw.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15980No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2016Jun 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: carl_spackler "Some interesting stats for you.

Joe Westerman missed tackles per game

Those stats mean nothing without context as you well know.

Players will always miss tackles and give away penalties it was the manner of them that caused me to criticise Joe. Take his offloads as an example, so far this year his offloads have been at the right time and they've actually been "on" whereas in the past it has been such a low percentage play that it was never going to come off.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15980No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2016Jun 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Kosh "Westerman missed 6% of his tackles last season. His number of tackles was second only to Houghton. As a comparison, Whiting missed 5% of his tackles.

He made 28 errors at an average of 8 errors per 100 carries. This was our top error rate but not by much.

He gave away 3 more penalties all season than Whiting (those two were our worst offenders). And he was hardly the only one giving away needless penalties either.

There's some selective memory going on, but not where you seem to think.

By the way - his missed tackle count is currently worse (9%) and he's still joint top of penalties conceded. His error count is much better though.'"

What's Whiting got to do with it? When he makes mistakes I criticise him as well just like any other player. I criticise Houghton for parts of his game for instance. Why Westerman should be so protected by certain posters on this forum I have no idea.

140 posts in 10 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Kosh , Roland_R , Karen
140 posts in 10 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Kosh , Roland_R , Karen



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


10.88134765625:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
19m
Spirit of the Rhinos
batleyrhino
5
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Wanderer
40791
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
63259
Recent
Film game
Wanderer
5734
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
508
1m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2607
1m
Rumours and signings v9
[Gareth]
28897
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
63259
2m
Planning for next season
Bent&Bon
184
2m
Fixtures 2025
Bull Mania
4
2m
Pre Season - 2025
Irregs#16
188
2m
IMG Score
Bull Mania
83
2m
Game - Song Titles
Wanderer
40791
2m
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
36
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Fixtures 2025
Bull Mania
4
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos
batleyrhino
5
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
36
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
karetaker
52
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
1041
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
636
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1363
England's Women Demolish The W..
1193
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1430
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1211
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1473
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
2011
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2224
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2462
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
2025
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2269
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2734
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2158
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2235