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FORUMS > Hull FC > peter sharpe to st helens? |
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| Quote: Kosh "The safety-first rugby was a direct response to having no playmakers in the side after Cooke walked out. On the few occasions when we managed to have a reasonably fit half back pairing we played some good stuff.'"
Occasionally we looked accomplished/skilful, but I don't think we ever looked to have flair/invention. I could respect the organisation and discipline of the team at the time, but I didn't admire the style we played. Part of the magic of watching a pro side to me is seeing them do things others simply can't, not just seeing them as essentially a bunch of more efficient amateurs being consistent.
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| Quote: knocker norton "A pretty mixed bag IMO. I remember him talking up signing Mason, Sherwin and Soward and ending up with Cusack and Byrne.
Also seemd to have a soft spot for injury prone half backs looking at that list!
The right signings after the 2006 season could have set us up for a successful couple of years shame it never happened.'"
Don't forget Civoniceva.
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| Quote: carl_spackler "Don't forget Civoniceva.'"
I thought it was Hutchie that raised that name
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| Quote: ComeOnYouUll "IIRC Sharp signed
From that, only really Maiava was an outright failure.
Tickle, Manu, Head, and Berrigan were/are undoubted successes. Sing was great in his first year, and only struggled after a career-threatening foot injury. Godwin was fine in his time here, but was never going to be anything more than back-up to Swain. Dykes was obviously quality and equally obviously injury prone. Unfortunately we were backed into a corner after Sherwin couldn't make up his mind and us having no other options. Difficult to blame Sharp for signing the best available. Byrne again did a good job. We needed someone to cover the back five and I don't think there was anyone better available to do that. Cusack has had a couple of great years, although this season might be one too far. He might not have been exactly type of prop we needed (although Carvell being fit throughout 2008 rather than getting injured in the first game would have dramatically changed the look of our props) but his quality can't be doubted. That the Crocker signing didn't work out is in no way Sharp's fault.
So not too bad a list at all really, as far as decisions to sign go.
On the 'lack of flair' issue, firstly Sharp was mainly the defensive coach, with Agar coaching the attack, as far as I'm aware, and secondly the attack was fine when we had a half in there, although I suspect the competence is mainly due to the individual skill of Head/Dykes rather than anything that Agar instilled into them.
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| Quote: trys'r'us "From that, only really Maiava was an outright failure.
Tickle, Manu, Head, and Berrigan were/are undoubted successes. Sing was great in his first year, and only struggled after a career-threatening foot injury. Godwin was fine in his time here, but was never going to be anything more than back-up to Swain. Dykes was obviously quality and equally obviously injury prone. Unfortunately we were backed into a corner after Sherwin couldn't make up his mind and us having no other options. Difficult to blame Sharp for signing the best available. Byrne again did a good job. We needed someone to cover the back five and I don't think there was anyone better available to do that. Cusack has had a couple of great years, although this season might be one too far. He might not have been exactly type of prop we needed (although Carvell being fit throughout 2008 rather than getting injured in the first game would have dramatically changed the look of our props) but his quality can't be doubted. That the Crocker signing didn't work out is in no way Sharp's fault.
good post
So not too bad a list at all really, as far as decisions to sign go.
On the 'lack of flair' issue, firstly Sharp was mainly the defensive coach, with Agar coaching the attack, as far as I'm aware, and secondly the attack was fine when we had a half in there, although I suspect the competence is mainly due to the individual skill of Head/Dykes rather than anything that Agar instilled into them.'"
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| Quote: trys'r'us "From that, only really Maiava was an outright failure.
Tickle, Manu, Head, and Berrigan were/are undoubted successes. Sing was great in his first year, and only struggled after a career-threatening foot injury. Godwin was fine in his time here, but was never going to be anything more than back-up to Swain. Dykes was obviously quality and equally obviously injury prone. Unfortunately we were backed into a corner after Sherwin couldn't make up his mind and us having no other options. Difficult to blame Sharp for signing the best available. Byrne again did a good job. We needed someone to cover the back five and I don't think there was anyone better available to do that. Cusack has had a couple of great years, although this season might be one too far. He might not have been exactly type of prop we needed (although Carvell being fit throughout 2008 rather than getting injured in the first game would have dramatically changed the look of our props) but his quality can't be doubted. That the Crocker signing didn't work out is in no way Sharp's fault.
So not too bad a list at all really, as far as decisions to sign go.
On the 'lack of flair' issue, firstly Sharp was mainly the defensive coach, with Agar coaching the attack, as far as I'm aware, and secondly the attack was fine when we had a half in there, although I suspect the competence is mainly due to the individual skill of Head/Dykes rather than anything that Agar instilled into them.'"
Berrigan has been a bad signing, we should of kept Godwin and rotated him with Houghton and used his Berrigans money elsewhere, been a huge disappointment in my opinion.
Sing was a very poor signing also, a quota winger is a waste of a quota spot when other areas of the team need improving first. Never lived up to the hype again.
Head was only a short term signing and as good as Dykes was, he never played. Byrne was another waste of a quota spot, once again could of been used elsewhere. Cusack has been a very poor signing, no better than what we've got rid of for not apparently been good enough.
His other oversea signing Maiava has got to the worst signing in the clubs recent history.
Overall, during Sharps reign, the squad that had been built by McRae and Kear was dismantled through his obsession with bringing in Aussies.
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| Quote: FC Callum "Berrigan has been a bad signing, we should of kept Godwin and rotated him with Houghton and used his Berrigans money elsewhere, been a huge disappointment in my opinion.'"
Ever thought that Houghton's development has been aided by Berrigan though? We've been fortunate with Houghton that he's had 2 fine hookers to learn from, I doubt Godwin could have helped him as much, even though he was a decent player. I personally think Berrigan has been about as good as he's been able to be, team failings have hindered him.
Quote: FC Callum "Sing was a very poor signing also, a quota winger is a waste of a quota spot when other areas of the team need improving first. Never lived up to the hype again.'"
Again, team failings did not help Sing. It was evident to anyone that he still knew how to finish, and if we'd played to his strengths he could have been excellent. For example, we didn't kick to his corner anywhere near enough.
Quote: FC Callum "Head was only a short term signing and as good as Dykes was, he never played. Byrne was another waste of a quota spot, once again could of been used elsewhere. Cusack has been a very poor signing, no better than what we've got rid of for not apparently been good enough.'"
Pretty much agree, but I would alter it slightly. Cusack was good enough, he just wasn't any/much better than what is available over here, so agree completely that he's been a relative waste of a quota spot.
Quote: FC Callum "His other oversea signing Maiava has got to the worst signing in the clubs recent history.
Overall, during Sharps reign, the squad that had been built by McRae and Kear was dismantled through his obsession with bringing in Aussies.'"
Yup, pretty much.
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| Quote: FC Callum "Berrigan has been a bad signing, we should of kept Godwin and rotated him with Houghton and used his Berrigans money elsewhere, been a huge disappointment in my opinion.'"
He's been by far our best player in his three years here. He was pretty much a one man team in his first year and really couldn't have done much more given what he's had to work with.
Quote: FC Callum "Sing was a very poor signing also, a quota winger is a waste of a quota spot when other areas of the team need improving first. Never lived up to the hype again.'"
Sing couldn't have done much more in his first year. He worked his off bringing the ball out and finished just about every chance he got. He didn't have a chance in his second year.
Quote: FC Callum "Byrne was another waste of a quota spot, once again could of been used elsewhere.'"
We needed cover in the positions that Byrne played and he was the best available. Had we not brought in that cover, we'd have been short and Sharp would have been rightly castigated.
Quote: FC Callum "Cusack has been a very poor signing, no better than what we've got rid of for not apparently been good enough.'"
He was our best prop for two years and was much better than what we've had in his role previously. Plus he was a late signing after other options didn't come off. Had we then gone into the season a prop short with a quota space open, Sharp would, again, have been rightly criticised, especially after what happened to Carvell in our first game.
Quote: FC Callum "His other oversea signing Maiava has got to the worst signing in the clubs recent history.
'"
He was poor, but was no more of a gamble than Moa. One paid off, one didn't. It happens.
Quote: FC Callum "Overall, during Sharps reign, the squad that had been built by McRae and Kear was dismantled through his obsession with bringing in Aussies.'"
Rubbish. He used the available quota spots, as any coach would, and brought in the best that was available in the areas that we needed cover. Not all were ideal, and his hand was forced in a few cases, but his recruitment wasn't bad generally.
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| Quote: trys'r'us "He's been by far our best player in his three years here. He was pretty much a one man team in his first year and really couldn't have done much more given what he's had to work with.
Sing couldn't have done much more in his first year. He worked his booty off bringing the ball out and finished just about every chance he got. He didn't have a chance in his second year.
We needed cover in the positions that Byrne played and he was the best available. Had we not brought in that cover, we'd have been short and Sharp would have been rightly castigated.
He was our best prop for two years and was much better than what we've had in his role previously. Plus he was a late signing after other options didn't come off. Had we then gone into the season a prop short with a quota space open, Sharp would, again, have been rightly criticised, especially after what happened to Carvell in our first game.
He was poor, but was no more of a gamble than Moa. One paid off, one didn't. It happens.
Rubbish. He used the available quota spots, as any coach would, and brought in the best that was available in the areas that we needed cover. Not all were ideal, and his hand was forced in a few cases, but his recruitment wasn't bad generally.'"
Disagree with all of that.
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| Well argued.
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| sharpe was like kear and agar, always a better assistant than head coach
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| Quote: trys'r'us "He's been by far our best player in his three years here. He was pretty much a one man team in his first year and really couldn't have done much more given what he's had to work with.
Sing couldn't have done much more in his first year. He worked his booty off bringing the ball out and finished just about every chance he got. He didn't have a chance in his second year.
We needed cover in the positions that Byrne played and he was the best available. Had we not brought in that cover, we'd have been short and Sharp would have been rightly castigated.
He was our best prop for two years and was much better than what we've had in his role previously. Plus he was a late signing after other options didn't come off. Had we then gone into the season a prop short with a quota space open, Sharp would, again, have been rightly criticised, especially after what happened to Carvell in our first game.
He was poor, but was no more of a gamble than Moa. One paid off, one didn't. It happens.
Rubbish. He used the available quota spots, as any coach would, and brought in the best that was available in the areas that we needed cover. Not all were ideal, and his hand was forced in a few cases, but his recruitment wasn't bad generally.'"
The thing was Sharp took us from being grand final challengers to a team who struggled to get in the play-offs. Dykes was a bad signing, not because he was a bad player but because he was very injury prone. Head was a good signing in the short-term however could never have stayed in the long term for the same reason as Dykes. He wasted our quota, at one point we had Dykes (who hardly played), Sing, Byrne compared to now when we have
O'Meley, Fitzgibbon and Berro.
Ultimately the fact is we were top 2 when he came and bottom 4 when he left which says it all.
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| Quote: Matty_HullFC "The thing was Sharp took us from being grand final challengers to a team who struggled to get in the play-offs. Dykes was a bad signing, not because he was a bad player but because he was very injury prone. Head was a good signing in the short-term however could never have stayed in the long term for the same reason as Dykes. He wasted our quota, at one point we had Dykes (who hardly played), Sing, Byrne compared to now when we have
O'Meley, Fitzgibbon and Berro.
Ultimately the fact is we were top 2 when he came and bottom 4 when he left which says it all.'"
2nd and 4th under Sharp....Hardy "struggled" did we......we havent even made play-offs under Agar.
Sharp came in with team in dissaray in 2006 and finished 2nd.....2007,cooke,Swain,Domic...chronic injuries and took us to 4th and 1 game away from eleminater....2008 and we struggled with Injurys and he laost his job for a damn sight less than Agar ever did.
Facts are a bugger arent they.
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| Quote: fc baldy "2nd and 4th under Sharp....Hardy "struggled" did we......we havent even made play-offs under Agar.
Sharp came in with team in dissaray in 2006 and finished 2nd.....2007,cooke,Swain,Domic...chronic injuries and took us to 4th and 1 game away from eleminater....2008 and we struggled with Injurys and he laost his job for a damn sight less than Agar ever did.
Facts are a bugger arent they.'"
Im Agars biggest critic but he took over a squad that had been decimated by Sharp. How Sharp ever thought that the team he put together could seriously challenge is beyond comprehension. You only have to look at what a mess this team still is to see what Sharp did with his team full of utility players.
So what if he was a nice bloke with some funny one liners. He ruined Hull FC and i hope for Saints sake he doesnt get his hands on them.
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| Quote: Matty_HullFC "The thing was Sharp took us from being grand final challengers to a team who struggled to get in the play-offs. Dykes was a bad signing, not because he was a bad player but because he was very injury prone. Head was a good signing in the short-term however could never have stayed in the long term for the same reason as Dykes. He wasted our quota, at one point we had Dykes (who hardly played), Sing, Byrne compared to now when we have
O'Meley, Fitzgibbon and Berro.
[sizeUltimately the fact is we were top 2 when he came and bottom 4 when he left which says it all[/size.'"
cant argue with that surely
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