Getting the balance is key. Mix our team with kr!

Good thread this one.

I've been going to FC since the early 80's and had a season pass from 92 through to last year, this being the first season I didn't buy one.

What's frustrating about the current situation, is I feel we almost made it terms AP's vision for the club.

He paid off the crap from the previous owners, invested in infrastructure, invested in youth development and the academy, and, at the same backed the coach in terms of running at salary cap.
The plan as I saw was that we would start producing more local talent and rely less on overseas mercs over for a last hurrah before retirement.

Doing all that whilst trying to challenge the top clubs and bring silverware to the club was never going to be easy. Yes there have been mistakes along the way.

But those shoots started to push through, there are youngsters pushing for a first team place, more than I can remember in some time. I still think our squad is better than its shown to be capable off this season.

The glaringly obvious thing he didn't do was get a top coach in - and this isn't LR bashing, its not his fault, no man in the right mind would have turned the job down.

But a top coach would have developed young talent better, probably played a more exciting brand of rugby and whilst the end result still may have only be 7th or 6th as those youngsters became more experienced, the fans would be entertained and excited to see young players developing before their very eyes - I know I would.

Now it seems its too late, with dwindling crowds due to 'boring' product on pitch, AP is having to cut his cloth as the OP suggested - the merger of the academy was purely for that reason, I wont be convinced otherwise.

With pass sales likely to down again next year, its only a matter of time before other cost cutting measures are made - this guy (AP) will NOT sit here forever watching his money go down the drain, he doesn't love the club that much regardless of what he says.

I really believe if he had gotten a proven, experienced coach 2/3 years ago, paid top dollar for him and maybe spend a fraction less on players to cover the investment all his hard work and commitment to the club and facilities/academy would now be paying off, the academy merger would never have happened and we wouldn't have this thread.

I know this thread doesn't need de-railing and I'm trying to avoid doing that, but the missing piece of the jigsaw is glaringly obvious to me, why not to him?

As mentioned earlier you only have to look at Cas to see what's achievable with a coach that connects with his players and leads them. They believe in him and his ideas and they execute them on the pitch.

I really fear the worse TBH in terms of revenue down again next year, and if we get off to a bad start again, another season of frustration, boredom and lack of success.

I used to look forward to the new season, now I dread it.

What's done is done I guess. I think in summary some of AP's investments have been good (academy) others poor at best, but currently we are likely to have insufficient total income to fund a strong academy and a top 3 size/quality of coaching staff and a squad that yields their sort of value. We can rebalance between the three pots which would probably help (and seems to be part of the academy merger thinking) but the maths seems inescapable. We're diluting the academy, and the coaching structure could scarcely be cheaper, so the only place left to cut spending is the first team. Given we've only just made the 8 in a season of few injuries, next year on a reduced cap spend could be jeopardy.

I take the point on Powell at Cas, but still don't think we can challenge the top 3 consistently without a step change in funding. I know the question's been asked already, but presumably there'd be no interest in buying us? RL clubs are generally basket-cases from a returns perspective, so any prospective buyer would have to be unhinged in an FC-nut way.

A dour team that can't score but will concede 40 points most weeks?

I thought he'd long gone by the last one .

pearson said in his interview last week we'll be spending above the cap next season using various loopholes

If that ends up being the case (some claims have been previously umfulfilled), then the balance of spending should be adjusted. Doesn't alter the bigger issue on total club funding though.

I'm still not seeing this 'Radford has near enough equalled Gentle's 2013 season'!

People banging on about unlucky to get Leeds in the 1/4s of the CC, what about Cats away in the 1/4s and Warrington in the semis in 2013, Warrington finished 2nd in the LL and were GF runners up!
2013 saw us barely string together a fit set of halves, starting rookies, investment in the youth only just a year in and yet we scored 5 points per game more by season end than now - that's approx 115 points scored more in 2013 after 23 games and conceded the same -21.04av '15, 20.85-'13

We finished with 28 points from 27 games, I guess folk are going to say' ah but the super 8s are more difficult' as an excuse if we don't achieve the same points from 3 more games but we couldn't even beat Wakefield FFS and have had 40+ put past us twice this season and scored 40+ just once (2013 we scored 40+ 3 times and 38 was the highest against)

In 2013 we felt like we had hope of winning, that we were improving and that it was a solid season (if not dissapointing losing the CC final), that with some decent signings for 2014 we could get closer to the top 4 and look where we are now, in total disarray. the fans are upset, first half of the season we couldn't score for shat despite being in great field position, the youth system is being merged, yet more fans stating they aren't buying passes.

But yeah we are roughly in the same position as 2013 what a joke, we're miles away both in on field play and how the fans are feeling with regards the club!

More rose tinted memories of Peter Gentle.

The Cup wins over Catalans and Warrington were great, of course, but the final saw as bad a performance as any under Radford, the play off debacle was a nadir in the club's history. The narrow win over Wigan's academy team the week after Wembley kept us in 6th, we hardly sailed into the play offs.

Also in 2013 every team beat us apart from London and Salford (the bottom two) and we had to come from behind to get a draw at London.

There was as much moaning on here then as there is now.

As has been pointed out Peter Gentle failed in his aim to narrow the gap between our good displays and our poor ones.

So by your logic/definition we are playing better this year/narrowing the gap compared to 2013 by losing more games by greater margins, scoring less points but conceding the same and with no hope of a final or even a play-off game...of course how silly of me

But crack on with your doe eyes over Radford and how this season has panned out, I'd say we had four great games this season, the rest have being average or utter garbage. Gentle wasn't amazing but he was getting us in the right direction and with a damn sight more hope than we'll ever have under Radford.

Forget it, you come wading in again with your insults and silly emoticons spoiling a perfectly good thread.

In a nutshell. The win against Wigan was great fun but comedic when you think back to the team they fielded. Agar's FC in 2008 - without Dykes- delivered a Wembley final performance that totally eclipsed the one Gentle's could manage. And some of the contracts Gentle handed out compromised both the club's recruitment and finances to spend elsewhere. The Huddersfield effort was probably the most humiliating performance I've seen from FC in the SL era, including the 2005 Odsal debacle.
Disenchantment with Gentle was significant. Appointing his successor was, like a few decisions made in this regime, done with too much haste. There should have been a fuller recruitment process IMO to assess a broad range of candidates. That said, most clubs seem to promote from within these days without open selection.

There were rumours in the media as early as July that Pearson was going to sack Gentle but winning the CC semi final saved his job. If Pearson was planning on a change of coach for months then you would have thought he could have come up with someone better than he did.

Can you put any numbers to this rather than just speculation based upon costs being cut? What are the turnover & fixed cost comparisons between us, Leeds, Wigan and Saints?

I only ask because you keep saying that we don't have even close to the same level of funds to compete with the spending of the big 3, but (maybe I've missed it) I've not seen any reasons how you've come to this conclusion other than the observation that Pearson has started cutting costs and selling players.

Whereas this season even the bottom team have managed it. Everyone bar Widnes has beaten us this year.

And the flip side in 2013, of course, was that there was only Hudds we didn't take points from.

It would be rose-tinted to suggest that everything was rosy under Gentle, when it wasn't. Whether or not we are better/worse/the same now as we were then is open to valid debate IMO.