Would 'trying' Westy or Whiting at 13 have won us something last year? As you seem to be implying.

You really need to comprehend what I wrote I shall spell it out for you...Possibly poor defense against the poorer sides in the competition..Of course the oppositions poor defense allows a team to score tries (are you on the right forum, this is a rugby forum)

Our extra forward at 13 never did us much good against the top sides did it ?.. especially Leeds ?...nor did that extra forward at 13 do us much good in the C/Cup run or the play-offs did it ?

I don't think anyone can guarantee anything. Both options have a chance of working, depending on what systems PG puts in place. We all have our preferences, but anyone stating that one option definitely won't work and another definitely will is talking out of his hat.

now who is struggling for comprehension

we don't know as WE DIDN'T TRY IT!

I am talking about TRYING with Westerman, Seymour, Horne, Ellis and Whiting (and various combinations)

Tickle down the middle will work to an extent, but it wont unlock the defences of the best teams, we need guile and creativity for that, not just bludgeoing down the middle.

I'm far worse in real life!

Strange how I get called condescending when you post stuff like this.

Now, I'll ask again, would playing Whiting or Westy at 13 last year have won us anything? You all seem to be implying it would.

I think the fact we have h/back options will help this year too..At least I hope!..My personal preference is a creative 13 above an extra forward, I hope to see it happen but if it does not and the extra forward gets the result, will be happy.

All two of them?

How do I know if we would have won anything we never did it!!

Beat me to it.

Our inability to win the big games last season wasn't purely down to a lack of creativity, or playing Fitz at 13, or any other single factor. Our overall performance fell short and there were a number of issues. Given the large changes at the club since then you might as well pretty much forget what happened last season and start over with a clean slate.

My personal preference is for a ball-handling 'creative' 13 but I'm aware that the modern game has moved away from that model, and clubs still manage to be creative and win stuff. What matters is how the team works as a whole, and if there is enough creativity coming from - say - 6, 7, 9, & 1 then having a 13 who is not creative in the traditional sense becomes immaterial.

Did we?

Please point me to any post.that I stated it shouldn't be tried. What I've said is that imo it won't be tried, as PG is an Aussie and most (if not all) Aussies prefer this system. Then you and others started banging on about creativity, which I pointed out didn't seem to suffer last year when we played that system. I also don't think that we would have faired any better against the top clubs had we employed the system you want as the problems are not solely down to it.

Leeds have played that way and won stuff recently, so it can work in the right circumstances.