FORUMS > Hull FC > Westerman were he should be !!! |
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| I've never ever understood the battering he's taken off our fans! One of the strangest things I've known as a fan for 25years now
I've watched games. Seen him try his heart out. Top or near the tackle count, carry count, be our most effective forward then because as a team we've been pants he's been the go to man to tear to bits! Odd, really odd.
I've always seen this form was in him personally, to me it was always obvious we wasn't giving him a platform to work off!
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| The fact he's getting recognition for much improved performances shows that he wasn't performing previously so was rightly criticised. All this high horse clap trap based on selective memory is just boring.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "The fact he's getting recognition for much improved performances shows that he wasn't performing previously so was rightly criticised. All this high horse clap trap based on selective memory is just boring.'"
Clap trap
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| Quote: ccs "Clap trap'"
If you say so.
For me he has been a pretty run of the mill back rower for the past few seasons. He is playing way above that level so far this season.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "The fact he's getting recognition for much improved performances shows that he wasn't performing previously so was rightly criticised. All this high horse clap trap based on selective memory is just boring.'"
He was our most consistent forward last year too.
Clap trap indeed.
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| Quote: *1865* "He was our most consistent forward last year too.
Clap trap indeed.'"
Is he playing at a much higher level this year than last year?
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| Quote: Robbo4 "Is he playing at a much higher level this year than last year?'"
Not for me. He's showing the same effort, commitment and skill he always has, he's just doing it in a role that's suited to his skill set this year.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "The fact he's getting recognition for much improved performances shows that he wasn't performing previously so was rightly criticised. All this high horse clap trap based on selective memory is just boring.'"
It's not selective memory if you weren't heavily criticising, though, is it? The very point is that some of us genuinely thought the level of criticism was unfair and incorrect, and said so at the time. Stating the same now is the definition of consistency.
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| Quote: *1865* "Not for me. He's showing the same effort, commitment and skill he always has, he's just doing it in a role that's suited to his skill set this year.'"
Same for me, and the point I made earlier. It's not so much that his play has massively improved, rather that he's been able to be more effective because the circumstances around him have changed.
A bit like Briscoe's start to the season. He's no better a player than he was for us, he's just on a better platform to show it.
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| Quote: carl_spackler "Same for me, and the point I made earlier. It's not so much that his play has massively improved, rather that he's been able to be more effective because the circumstances around him have changed.
A bit like Briscoe's start to the season. He's no better a player than he was for us, he's just on a better platform to show it.'"
Completely disagree. His general play has been far better this season. Better tackling and less attempted "big shots" that invariably completely missed. Less errors including those daft offloads he used to try which I assume is as a result of being given a creative role meaning he doesn't feel like he has to force things. Less penalties including the needless ones he was giving away.
In other words he has cut out the things he was getting criticised for.
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| Quote: carl_spackler "It's not selective memory if you weren't heavily criticising, though, is it? The very point is that some of us genuinely thought the level of criticism was unfair and incorrect, and said so at the time. Stating the same now is the definition of consistency.'"
Claiming the fact he is playing really well now proves he shouldn't have been criticised last season when in many people's opinion he was playing poorly makes no sense.
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| Its all about opinions. Some say he looks better because he was poor in previous seasons. Others, me included, say he looks better because he's playing where he should in a proper structured team. As others have mentioned the general levels of fitness are much higher across the board so he's not the only one who appears to be better than previously.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "Claiming the fact he is playing really well now proves he shouldn't have been criticised last season when in many people's opinion he was playing poorly makes no sense.'"
You're not grasping the point. Westerman has always been a skilled loose forward who plays at a great level of intensity, him playing really well now is down to him being utilised effectively. Obviously there'll still be some improvement down to him as he is playing much more confidently, as is often the case when these things happen.
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| Quote: the cal train "Your not grasping the point. Westerman has always been a skilled loose forward who plays at a great level of intensity, him playing really well now is down to him being utilised effectively. Obviously there'll still be some improvement down to him as he is playing much more confidently, as is often the case when these things happen.'"
I'm not grasping the point? Really?
The fact a player is skilled and plays with intensity doesn't mean they are immune from criticism if they make poor errors of judgement or perform poorly. I've never questioned his effort.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "Completely disagree. His general play has been far better this season. Better tackling and less attempted "big shots" that invariably completely missed. Less errors including those daft offloads he used to try which I assume is as a result of being given a creative role meaning he doesn't feel like he has to force things. Less penalties including the needless ones he was giving away.
In other words he has cut out the things he was getting criticised for.'"
Westerman missed 6% of his tackles last season. His number of tackles was second only to Houghton. As a comparison, Whiting missed 5% of his tackles.
He made 28 errors at an average of 8 errors per 100 carries. This was our top error rate but not by much.
He gave away 3 more penalties all season than Whiting (those two were our worst offenders). And he was hardly the only one giving away needless penalties either.
There's some selective memory going on, but not where you seem to think.
By the way - his missed tackle count is currently worse (9%) and he's still joint top of penalties conceded. His error count is much better though.
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