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Quote: Marfa Manu "Oh so we can dismiss that aspect of his game then People who don't rate Horne spent years dismissing his defensive capabilities as irrelevant for a halfback when they were offered up as a strength. Now suddenly they're important? You also left out that Green has given away 14 pens to Horne's 4 which somewhat offsets the defence stats.

The fact is that his overall stats compare favourably with a stand off playing in a current top 4 side and with recent International honours. Kinda blows the 'not good enough for top 4' argument out of the water.

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Quote: hullbg "I believe Standee & Marfa both made [isubjective[/i points about Horne to show he has not been good enough [iwithout offering any objective evidence to support that opinion[/i.'"

Edited for accuracy. icon_wink.gif

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Quote: hullbg "You mean you THINK you understand more about rugby than Marfa.
Nor does you putting you opinion across.
I believe Standee & Marfa both made points about Horne to show he has not been good enough. Yes there are other factors involved but they have just as much right to base their opinions on what they see as you do on what you see. Neither of you can be deemed right or wrong, that will have to wait till next season when he will hopefully get a chance to concentrate on his own game rather than trying to play a game he just isn't up to (IE leading a side around the field, kicking etc)[/quote]

Which was the point I was making about Heremaia & Seymour taking those responsibilities away from him. Marfa couldn't comrehend that.

Going by her posts on this thread and many others, it's quite clear that she watches the game, probably loves the game and Hull FC, but doesn't understand it. Not everyone who goes to the KC understands exactly what they're seeing - that's the point.

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But you are dismissing their opinion of Horne, which to be fair a lot of people share. If you look at his form over the last 3 years he has not been good enough, but there is a chance he may improve if he is allowed to go back to his own game. There is just as much chance he will continue to be poor overall regardless of the game he is playing.

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Quote: hullbg "But you are dismissing their opinion of Horne, which to be fair a lot of people share. If you look at his form over the last 3 years he has not been good enough, but there is a chance he may improve if he is allowed to go back to his own game. There is just as much chance he will continue to be poor overall regardless of the game he is playing.'"

The link posted above suggests that this season he has been as good as Kevin Brown, who plays for a top 4 side and has played for England. Should Hudds be looking to get rid of him?

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Quote: Kosh "The link posted above suggests that this season he has been as good as Kevin Brown, who plays for a top 4 side and has played for England. Should Hudds be looking to get rid of him?'"


stats are not everything tho.

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Quote: Neville Bartos "
My level 1 & 2 coaching badges and ours teams success which includes 3 cups and a league title would suggest I most certainly do understand it......and that was based on just one team! I could go on but I will not.

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Quote: Kosh "The link posted above suggests that this season he has been as good as Kevin Brown, who plays for a top 4 side and has played for England. Should Hudds be looking to get rid of him?'"

Try putting some different names from h/backs who are lower in the league than us, then you will get the objective evidence!

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Quote: Kosh "People who don't rate Horne spent years dismissing his defensive capabilities as irrelevant for a halfback when they were offered up as a strength. Now suddenly they're important? You also left out that Green has given away 14 pens to Horne's 4 which somewhat offsets the defence stats.

The fact is that his overall stats compare favourably with a stand off playing in a current top 4 side and with recent International honours. Kinda blows the 'not good enough for top 4' argument out of the water.'"

No it does not blow it out of the water, you have used one other player in the stats icon_lol.gif

I do not dismiss defence in any player, I expect h/backs to be good defensively, Longy had a superb defence game which was often unnoticed possibly due to his other strengths on show.
We disagree which is not a problem, you claimed Craig Hall was great and Yeamo pants which I disagreed with and still do and I was proved right there. As much as you claim we offer nothing objective in our argument nor do you in yours.

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Quote: Marfa Manu "Oh so we can dismiss that aspect of his game then and the goalposts move yet again icon_lol.gif

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Quote: PAUL M "How does Ellis offer more than Horne? He offers a better kicking game yes and organises well. However he doesn't offer pace, support, a step and experience.

Put them together and you have an excellent blend, the same with Seymour.

Horne will have everything he needs to play well next season, if he does then great and if he doesn't then drop him as we have options.'"

good post absolutely spot on.

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Quote: Marfa Manu "No it does not blow it out of the water, you have used one other player in the stats
The Kevin Brown example was used because you said that Horne was not good enough for a top 4 side, and the stats show when compared to Brown, that Horne is as good as, if not better then Brown (who plays for a top 4 side).

It really isn't that difficult.

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Appearances:
Horne 22
Briers 18
Finch 19
Gaskell 19
Brown 21
Chase 22

Tries:
Horne 5
Briers 14
Finch 5
Gaskell 7
Brown 6
Chase 12

Try Assists:
Horne 13
Briers 16
Finch 13
Gaskell 9
Brown 12
Chase 22

Attacking Kicks:
Horne 102
Briers 112
Finch 83
Gaskell 60
Brown 49
Chase 170

Kicks in general play:
Horne 152
Briers 163
Finch 121
Gaskell 127
Brown 57
Chase 240

Clean Breaks:
Horne 12
Briers 11
Finch 9
Gaskell 6
Brown 9
Chase 12

Meters:
Horne 1647
Briers 1044
Finch 982
Gaskell 1014
Brown 1340
Chase 2539

Errors:
Horne 30
Briers 24
Finch 24
Gaskell 32
Brown 27
Chase 30

Although stats aren't everything, Horney's more than match up to the stand offs in the current top 4 sides.

And Rangi Chase has by far and away the best stats of the players I've compared.

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Quote: hullbg "But you are dismissing their opinion of Horne, which to be fair a lot of people share. If you look at his form over the last 3 years he has not been good enough, quote]

does that include the period of the neck injury and the managing of an illness or not, or the period he has played with no other recognised half pairing partner or not icon_rolleyes.gif

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Quote: Marfa Manu "

icon_eek.gif level 1 AND 2 wow , agar beware eh icon_rolleyes.gif

294 posts in 21 pages 
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