There's no sophistry, I'm just taking a view that looks beyond the obvious. I agree that objectively up to this point in the season we have performed the 4th best, my issue is that a league table is not always a particularly accurate guide to how strong one side is in relation to other sides, especially when the fixtures aren't complete.

There's a big difference between having [iperformed[/i better for a period of time and actually [ibeing[/i better. Now in a straight league that doesn't necessarily matter because at the end of the season you finish where you finish, but we have playoffs to contend with so surely we should be basing our judgments with that in mind instead of claiming to be the 4th strongest team in the country based on a season that's nowhere near finished?

Where we end up will dictate on what we can claim to be.

You're not right and rarely are

Fans are saying we are 4th best as of now, not at the end of the season but now. Any comments about the end of the season are speculation unless you have a crystal ball.

That's not what this debate was originally about though until people started back tracking, I was replying to this commentTo suggest the league table isn't a true reflection of how strong teams are until the season is over is just bollox.

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The way I see it is that we're in 'the 4th best' position right now, I certainly don’t think Hull Fc are the 4th best team in the league.

Does anyone think we have the 4th best coach as well?

Hallelujah.

I'm flatly denying it because league position isn't evidence with 1/3 of the season to go of exactly how strong a side is in relation to the rest of the teams. Are you suggesting that warrington are 2nd best team despite not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams except us?

This isn't about having a go at agar, it's about common sense. If we finish 4th, then we'll be the 4th best team this season, likewise 5th, 6th, 3rd or whatever, but not with only 2/3rds of teh season gone.

I would have thought someone with an education as great as yours would understand this very simple concept

Which all goes to prove that league positions aren't necessarily the best indicator of how strong a team is. Going by yours, and most other people's logic, we should have trounced cats, what with us being 4th best team and them being 14th

This thread is full of fools. They're so desperate to defend agar they've left common sense in the changing rooms

Doesn't quite tally with what you said on Friday

Od course they don't, there isn't one, except the concept of the 4th placed team being the 4th best midway through the season only counts in Rugby League. All other sports use a common sense approach