Repetition, feigned exasperation, smileys, refusing to discuss the points raised...I'll take it as you have no argument then, one down... does anyone have a reasoned argument against what I'm saying?

But the league doesn't lie

Correct. The truth must be that that there were 10 truly awful teams last year.

What's the point?

It has already been suggested that [iusually[/i after three quarters of a season when clubs have played half of their opposition both home and away - and the others [ieither[/i home or away - the league table is a fair representation of how each team is doing. We are 4th best at present, that may change.

You have quoted examples of how a club can fall away towards the end of a season but these are exceptions rather than the norm. The top six now will very likely finish in the top six albeit perhaps in a different order.

I stick by my point I made a few pages ago - to suggest that a league table means nothing in terms of how strong teams are until the end of the season is bollox.

But only one truly awful team in Hull

Yes.

You're making a subjective judgement of our worth/quality compared to the other teams in SL. Our league table position is an objective assessment. It's also the only assessment that counts.

Right now we are the 4th best side in SL based on the only criteria that matters - league position. Simplez. No amount of sophistry will change that indisputable fact.

There's no sophistry, I'm just taking a view that looks beyond the obvious. I agree that objectively up to this point in the season we have performed the 4th best, my issue is that a league table is not always a particularly accurate guide to how strong one side is in relation to other sides, especially when the fixtures aren't complete.

There's a big difference between having [iperformed[/i better for a period of time and actually [ibeing[/i better. Now in a straight league that doesn't necessarily matter because at the end of the season you finish where you finish, but we have playoffs to contend with so surely we should be basing our judgments with that in mind instead of claiming to be the 4th strongest team in the country based on a season that's nowhere near finished?

Where we end up will dictate on what we can claim to be.

You're not right and rarely are

Fans are saying we are 4th best as of now, not at the end of the season but now. Any comments about the end of the season are speculation unless you have a crystal ball.

That's not what this debate was originally about though until people started back tracking, I was replying to this comment:

I agree to the extent that being 4th at this stage shows we are at least amongst the top 6/8 teams in the league (as it would take a disaster of epic proportions for us to fall out of the playoffs altogether), but as an indicator of how we match up against the opposition teams in terms of actually winning the competition it's a very weak indicator.

Oh OK they're the same thing then? You'll be telling me that form and class are the same next!

Must try harder.