He led with the shoulder and missed making it careless. If he'd hit him with his shoulder it then becomes Moa/Puletua ground but closer to a legal challenge than making contact with his arm.

I'm not disputing the fact it was clumsy, I agree he didn't mean to do it but it was a tired effort to make the tackle with the correct technique which renders it careless. As I mentioned in my previous post, he has to anticipate Lauaki leaning into the tackle, that's his responsibility as the defender.

Unrealistic expectations mate, nothing more. There are worse 'value for money' players in our squad.

If lauaki bends down into westermans arm then more the fool to him. Westerman and tother week puletua along with moa had their arms to their sides and non dileberately attacked the head. Its up to the attacker not to put their head in a dangerous position. If a defender bends low to tackle and catches a knee or hip to the head then he doesnt get a penalty

Are they?

Westerman's stats per game:

tries: 0.25
meters: 65.25
tackles: 25.4
missed tackles: 1.25
penalties: 0.75
errors: 0.6
carries: 11.5
offloads: 0.8
try assists: 0
tackle busts: 1.3

Richard Whiting's:

tries: 0.2
meters: 55
tackles: 20.8
missed tackles: 1
penalties: 0.55
errors: 0.5
carries: 8.45
offloads: 0.9
try assists: 0.15
tackle busts: 0.9

Not that bad like for like I'd say.

He's not the 'biggest waste of money ever' - there are loads of players more deserving of that crown - but equally, he's not of the sort of standard we need if we are to reach the heights we aspire to. If it was possible, I'd have him replaced at the end of the season.

Westerman would find himself a place in any 17 in the league. He should, however, be played consistently as a wide 2nd rower. His try assist for Gleeson in the CP derby last year was a real 'wow' moment, and is the level he can achieve given a consistent run there.

We'll have to agree to differ on that. Maybe I "don't understand his role", but I really don't think he's any more than an average player. The odd great pass doesn't change that.

I don't get all the sudden Westy bashing, I really don't. He captained the England Knights last season FFS. He's 22!

Just like John Barnes goal against Brazil



I seem to have opened up a can of worms with this thread

We don't have another 2nd rower at the club capable of that creativity to ghost through a gap then execute the pass.

Should have been sent of IMO as his challenge was worse that pulatua(sp) and moas