You're supposed to tackle with your shoulder, is it really that hard to understand? Deary me. Look at the GI hit from the other week. If that hit was with the shoulder, he wouldn't have been banned for as long. Same as Webb the other night, if puts his shoulder in there rather than lifting his arm then the ban isn't as severe. When have you ever been able to strike with the arm, out of interest?

Don't recall the hit on Mossop, would have to see it again.

Well fair enough, opinions vary, I just personally struggle to see how someone could see enough potential in Turner to be an international and not Westerman, as IMO if both sorted out their mistakes Westerman would comfortably be the better player. I cannot agree that Turner has proved he can play well defensively in anything like several matches, either (the only game I can recall him playing 80 minutes and not getting caught out in is this year's Good Friday derby). For me, Westerman is already a good player with further potential to improve, whereas Turner is a poor player who currently needs to improve to even reach Westerman's level, never mind surpass him.

FWIW, I was one who did agree with you about Lauaki, there's a good player in there if both he and a coach can harness it.

Tbh it is not Turners defensive efforts that are the issue for me he makes a lot of tackles and misses very few, it is his positioning defensive efforts and I actually think one of the factors in this is his inability to build up a good partnership as he has not a always had an experienced winger on his outside, his performances have been better when he has teamed up with the experienced player Briscoe so I will be interested to see how he goes at Saints when he can form a regular partnership with an experienced winger, however like you say our opinions on Turner are polar opposite and that is not an issue.
I don't disagree about Westy he is a good player and has skills and I would not be shocked if he hit the International scene however like I say I have not seen anything yet that suggest to me he will.
Yes I remember you did rate Lauaki, I think there were 3 of us, you, Worminhand and me

most clubs except it now because you dont get anywere when you appeal in most cases they stick by there decision and in all honesty its not as bad as some ive seen this year the game is getting alot softer just recently just like that kick and clap posh boys game

I think it will be interesting to revisit our debate in a season or two tbh.