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| Quote superleague referees make on average three and a half mistakes in every game RLW July 2012 issue. "superleague referees make on average three and a half mistakes in every game" " We just hope they have no major effects in a game" Stuart Cummings.'"
The question should be asked how many mistakes are made by the officials in a match, including touch judges. The mistakes made by officials in matches is now the main talking point of both sets of supporters, win or lose, and is far worse than it has ever been. As a teacher who has refereed games, I know how thankless the job is, but that doesn't excuse the poor standard of referees and touch judges in our game. The other interesting point in the article was the fact that the referees, after watching the DVD of the game, then AGREES the report that is sent to clubs. Isn't that a bit like asking kids to write their own school reports! No wonder there is no improvement.
Cummings: You had a crap game!
Ref: Yes but you have to tell the clubs I was great or I'm not signing my report.
Any wonder the fans have had enough/
get rid of Cummings and replace him with an ex player who the fans and coaches have some respect for ( e.g.paul sculthorpe)
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| The only thing worse than an incompetent referee is an ex-referee sticking up for the incompetent ones. Most of them take arrogance to the [in[/ith degree and are compensating for an early life of being bullied and a failed RL career.
Hicks lost control of that very early on and only Karma saved the game from being abandoned for fighting.
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"I still don't think it's any owrse than it ever was. The only reason we talk about it on internet forums is because technology says we can.
A few posts back I made my position clear. I'm not happy with the lack of any responsibility or accountability and I also think that Cummings has had his day. The TJs are (or should be) used to police offsides, they are mic'd up to the refs but it all depends on the level of involvement that the referee dictates his TJs should have, he's in charge of them and that decision is down to him. I also don't agree with utilising Grade 1 refs as touch judges, something that has increased in recent years and I believe has more to do with paying full-time officials than anything else. Refs & TJs are looking at completely different aspects of the game, so I would much rather use the old system of a Senior TJ and an up-coming referee, rather than grade 1 refs. I'm also in favour of teaming a referee with two TJs so that they get to know each other and work together.'"
You see I have a problem with this (and I did when I was refereeing), someone like Ganson who is very arrogant might frighten the life out of his TJ by telling them not to interfere. This is him assuming he knows better and will see everything. The odd time they do come on you can see he hates been undermined/overruled. Plus it means that TJ can have a greater role in some geames depending who the ref is which is simply unfair.
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| Quote PAUL M="PAUL M"You see I have a problem with this (and I did when I was refereeing), someone like Ganson who is very arrogant might frighten the life out of his TJ by telling them not to interfere. This is him assuming he knows better and will see everything. The odd time they do come on you can see he hates been undermined/overruled. Plus it means that TJ can have a greater role in some geames depending who the ref is which is simply unfair.'"
I never said it was right but that's the way it works. In the past I've received instructions what have swung between "anything you see, come on for it and I'll back you up" to "we're on telly today, so all I want you to do is mark touch and flag goals". It's wrong, of course it's wrong and little appears to have changed in 30 or so years.
That's why I would like to see referees partnered with the same two TJs. You get to know what's required and instinctively know who should go long or short etc. Weaknesses in any system or individual would also be easier to pinpoint and work to eliminate.
I have never been uncritical of referees, despite what some may believe but if a few more people tried to catch them doing something right, instead of doing something wrong, we might start to get a better appreciation of what's happening on the non-playing side.
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"I never said it was right but that's the way it works. In the past I've received instructions what have swung between "anything you see, come on for it and I'll back you up" to "we're on telly today, so all I want you to do is mark touch and flag goals". It's wrong, of course it's wrong and little appears to have changed in 30 or so years.
That's why I would like to see referees partnered with the same two TJs. You get to know what's required and instinctively know who should go long or short etc. Weaknesses in any system or individual would also be easier to pinpoint and work to eliminate.
I have never been uncritical of referees, despite what some may believe but if a few more people tried to catch them doing something right, instead of doing something wrong, we might start to get a better appreciation of what's happening on the non-playing side.'"
I had similar sets of instructions when I reffed, I like the idea of partnering teams together, they do this in the PL and it works well as you build up an understanding and also trust in each other.
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| Quote PAUL M="PAUL M"You see I have a problem with this (and I did when I was refereeing), someone like Ganson who is very arrogant might frighten the life out of his TJ by telling them not to interfere. This is him assuming he knows better and will see everything. The odd time they do come on you can see he hates been undermined/overruled. Plus it means that TJ can have a greater role in some geames depending who the ref is which is simply unfair.'"
Most of the West Stand must have overheard Mr Silverwood tell a persistent TJ at a game last year (I can't recall the opposition)," you are making me look a !!!!!!! idiot, when he insisted Hull had the put in to a scrum that he had given to the other team.
Like many on here I am sure, I have to admit to the B&W glasses sometimes making me see things one way that when watching replays or highlights on Sky I Have to admit the officials got right but refereeing decisions should not be the major talking points after games that they currently are.
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| Quote Airlieworm="Airlieworm"Most of the West Stand must have overheard Mr Silverwood tell a persistent TJ at a game last year (I can't recall the opposition)," you are making me look a !!!!!!! idiot, when he insisted Hull had the put in to a scrum that he had given to the other team.
Like many on here I am sure, I have to admit to the B&W glasses sometimes making me see things one way that when watching replays or highlights on Sky I Have to admit the officials got right but refereeing decisions should not be the major talking points after games that they currently are.'"
I often get home and watch the replay to find that =#000080every decision the ref made that I thought was wrong at the match was actually correct.
The problem is when they make a howler it adds credibility to our black and white view of all the other decisions.
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| Obviously I have some bias but I often find myself as the voice of reason, regarding decisions, with the fans around me. However, the area of the game that really annoys me, and we seem to always be on the wrong end of, is the interpretation of the referee with regards to a ball steal/knock on. An FC player can have the ball stripped and the decision is a knock on and then literally in the next set almost an identical incident will happen and we get penalised. This is the main area where referees are "influenced" IMO. We also seem to be on the wrong end of the decision when the referee hasnt seen how the ball came out and basically just guesses. I'm sure we must get some of these in our favour but I still get the feeling that more often then not the decision goes against us regardless of whether we were the ball carrier or the defender.
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| Quote Airlieworm="Airlieworm"Quote Airlieworm="PAUL M"You see I have a problem with this (and I did when I was refereeing), someone like Ganson who is very arrogant might frighten the life out of his TJ by telling them not to interfere. This is him assuming he knows better and will see everything. The odd time they do come on you can see he hates been undermined/overruled. Plus it means that TJ can have a greater role in some geames depending who the ref is which is simply unfair.'" <br sab="1332"><br sab="1333"><br sab="1334">Most of the West Stand must have overheard Mr Silverwood tell a persistent TJ at a game last year (I can't recall the opposition)," you are making me look a !!!!!!! idiot, when he insisted Hull had the put in to a scrum that he had given to the other team.<br sab="1335"><br sab="1336">Like many on here I am sure, I have to admit to the B&W glasses sometimes making me see things one way that when watching replays or highlights on Sky I Have to admit the officials got right but refereeing decisions should not be the major talking points after games that they currently are.'"
Pity the TJ in question didn't reply with "You're making a good enough of that yourself without any help from me".
In all seriousness though if this is what is happening in games then no wonder the officiating is very inconsistent as there is seemingly little or no respect between the Ref's and TJ's which is pretty bad.
A full overhaul should take place and the RFL should boot Cummings out as he seems to be unaccountable along with his band of merry men holding the game to ransom as we need them. Once he's gone shell out some of the cash and bring in a top Aussie ref to oversee the restructuring of the officials here for 1 to 2 years.
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| Quote Chris71="Chris71"bring in a top Aussie ref.'"
Hasn't that been tried?
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| Quote Standee="Standee"Hasn't that been tried?'"
Indeed it has. Greg McCallum took over from Fred Lindop and was eventually replaced by Stuart Cummings.
[url=http://tonyhannan.posterous.com/catching-up-with-greg-mccallumAn interview with McCallum from February 2000[/url
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